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yelahneb t1_jdey8ts wrote

This is pretty cool, but tech companies have no monetary incentive to keep providing compatible upgrades to a single machine. They need us to buy new laptops every 2 or 3 years to maintain their profit margins.

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JimNixon t1_jdf1dro wrote

They've already released a 12th gen motherboard for the Framework 13 inch version to allow owners to upgrade from 11th gen.

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yelahneb t1_jdf1ufw wrote

Is the cost of the laptop + the 11 gen motherboard + the 12 gen greater or lesser than the cost of a comparable laptop matching the specs of the 12 gen

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Customfreak567 t1_jdf5oqg wrote

The whole point is to reduce e-waste. The laptops should hopefully keep getting upgrades. That way if you want a new cpu you get a new main board and cpu and not a whole new chassis. Old one can be sent back

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innkeeper_77 t1_jdfpgqq wrote

It’s cheaper than buying two whole laptops… and the 11th gen original motherboard can theoretically still be used as a low power desktop or something.

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JimNixon t1_jdhns79 wrote

Not just theoretically, Framework released the 3D printable files to make a case to use the 11th gen motherboard as a standalone desktop PC.

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https://github.com/FrameworkComputer/Mainboard

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innkeeper_77 t1_jdhouje wrote

Oh certainly- but there are important components that would need to be purchased as they are needed for the laptop if you are upgrading- ram, storage, etc.

Old laptop motherboards certainly make more sense to use for small home servers than purpose built hardware though! This would theoretically make a strong reselling market for old framework components, and reduce demand for brand new hardware.

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DriftingMemes t1_jdfxwvw wrote

Or, since nobody really needs a low power desktop, it can be shipped to Africa for an impoverished child to strip the gold plating from.

This is a solution that's been tried many times, it never works, but each time evangelists pop up to explain why this time it will definitely work!

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innkeeper_77 t1_jdfykib wrote

The bigger benefit is making them easily repairable. This HAS been done, older thinkpads stayed in service way way longer than most of their comparable laptops simply because they were so serviceable.

One thing the framework does right is their charger setup- you are likely to break and wear out the charging port on a modern laptop- and when that happens on a framework you simply swap out the module and keep going. This is a much bigger deal than replaceable / upgradable motherboards, but keeping it all compatible makes parts easier to source for those repairing, not upgrading. (I’ve seen plenty of laptops discarded for a bad charging port, making it repairable without even opening up the laptop is AMAZING. I no longer have a modern thinkpad because they went to a delicate usb-c directly soldered to the motherboard instead of the old wired in charging port that you could repair by unplugging the broken one)

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Iintl t1_jdgxi9s wrote

They're still doing miles better than a typical laptop company. If you bought a HP or Dell or Apple and you wanted an upgrade, your only options are to sell it second hand or throw it away. Framework provides a third option of repurposing the mainboard, should you wish to so, plus it creates less e-waste because the screen, keyboard, battery, chassis etc. don't have to be replaced if they're working fine

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Indolent_Bard t1_jds3m55 wrote

The draw has always been that if any component breaks, you can just replace it. Most laptops make you replace the whole screen assembly if the screen breaks. Here you can just buy the screen, or the fan and heatsink, or the hinge, or literally any component that breaks. And the whole thing can be disassembled by the screwdriver they package with it, no glued parts to pry apart. They aren't doing it to get rich, they're doing it to make a revolution. Oh yeah, and you can upgrade the CPU too.

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DueAnalysis2 t1_jdfqrfu wrote

I mean, the cost_original_item+cost_upgrade_module is always going to be greater than the cost_new_item right?

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yelahneb t1_jdfq2lk wrote

Please don't mistake me for a hater. Don't know if this helps or hurts, but I have about 10,000 3.5" floppy disks and was born before we landed on the Moon

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ThePhysicsOfBaseball t1_jdg1fd7 wrote

Eh by this cynical logic there'd be no companies selling hardwood furniture that lasts decades, or DE razors that you buy once and never replace, or Moka Pots whose only maintenance is a cheap rubber seal.

And yet all those things exist.

Are they niche? Maybe. But--and I know this is blasphemy to say in the tech industry--not every business needs to be a monopolizing decacorn.

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yelahneb t1_jdisgbs wrote

I hear you. It's a balance, though - there are washing machines built 100 years ago that still work exactly as designed, but you gotta turn a crank.

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ThePhysicsOfBaseball t1_jdkd4zb wrote

I genuinely don't understand the point you're making. I thought we were talking about framework's business model.

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AnAverageBengali007 t1_jdfvubq wrote

Once you start working with electrons in the GigaHertz lane, you have more problems in your hand than just speed.

You have to think about signal timing, tracing lengths, parasitic capacitances, noise getting inducted into open terminals, signal integrity, de-phased signals due to a misaligned connection, different clocks due to even one bad transistor in the capacitor, and more and more we can go on about.

Like I am excited about this laptop, and I will buy one once my old and trusty legion 5 gives out. But I will hold back my expectations. I also once thought that "why can't they just do x? Just add y." but once you get into the intricacies of these magic rocks that even graduate engineers have no idea about, you start to be more conservative.

I also stopped complaining about bugs in apps and games once I got to experience my own deployment. It's easy to blame others when you are ignorant, bit things get different once you know what is happening.

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LSeww t1_jdgbyag wrote

I'm not sure what you're talking about. All high frequency stuff lives on separate boards, and all connections are low frequency.

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DriftingMemes t1_jdfxijn wrote

I'm with you. Toss this on the pile of all the other "upgradable" laptops that got one video card and then nada...

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