Saw this article as I'm literally sitting at my desk working on a 7330. So they're kinda wrong about the price. We pay about $1650 for this PC, and $1550 for the 7430. Most businesses that buy in build will receive bulk pricing that's locked in. It's more expensive for normies up front which I hold issues with. But this isn't an Inspiron or XPS this is a latitude.

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Wait til they see the Precision 5770.

i had one that had a known manufacturing error where the onboard graphics component got too hot and loosened solder on some of its connections. fucked up the screen really badly until i chucked the board in the oven for a bit, then made sure to ventilate it better after that

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Wait till you hear about groceries.

I agree on the too expensive thing. A few years ago I got one of the first gen Yoga Books on a lark for ~$200. Was neat but hardly used it. Just started a new job and needed a tablet I could carry around and then a laptop briefly at the end of my shift to fire off email and my god. The thing is Perfect. Co-workers are immediately jealous and shocked that it's not some exotic $2000 machine. These "business" laptops have become just a way to have a high-profit product and corporate IT departments are glibly spending the money.

These laptops are NOT meant for consumers. They are aimed at businesses that can afford it because of the warranty. We use them at work because there's a 3 year onsite warranty which means someone will come with either a replacement machine or to repair it within 4hrs of us logging a issue. This is what you are paying for.

Businesses also can afford it because it's a tax write off and they replace the machines after warranty expires anyways.

These laptops are NOT meant for consumers. They are aimed at businesses that can afford it because of the warranty. We use them at work because there's a 3 year onsite warranty which means someone will come with either a replacement machine or to repair it within 4hrs of us logging a issue. This is what you are paying for.

Businesses also can afford it because it's a tax write off and they replace the machines after warranty expires anyways.

Exactly. I have a top spec precision 7670, if you went on Dell's website that spec would cost you about £7500. I know as a fact that our company pays around £3800 each for them. Business pricing is where these products make sense. And also they know that literally no one else on the market offers this spec so if you really need 128GB of ram and a top spec GPU then you kinda only have one option(or a custom laptop builder, but no large corporation is going to buy laptops from them).

> a tax write off

So it's taxpayer subsidized then.

Also to factor in is that they won't suddenly start shipping with different hardware. If I build a OS image for one model, I can order that model all around the world and deploy the same image without finding the NIC has changed and the drivers I've bundled don't work. They also will provide updates for bug fixes and security vulnerabilities in drivers and firmware. You're lucky to see more than a couple of bios updates with consumer level laptops.

It's lenovos fault for choosing Nvidia...

Agreed but US contracts for laptop purchases are making them rich.

I live with 2 sales managers (quite high up) who have laptops, iPads and phones.

All top of the line and replaced every 2 years. The tech is all so overpowered for what they use, which is email, web and spreadsheets.

I truly believe Chromebooks could replace 80% of white collar laptops.

I'm sorry you just learned about inflation, and supply/demand. They should have taught you that in the 10th grade

Yeah I've owned 2 'modern' Thinkpads, and both have been well worth the premium. First one never had any issues, still works today, including the locking keyboard (OG Thinkpad Yoga). Second one did have an issue, but they overnight shipped a replacement motherboard to a tech who replaced it on-site the next day, for $0.

Combined they're nearly 20 years old and still trucking, which is amazing considering the abuse they've received. If Lenovo could figure out the whole stylus thing, I'd love to get a Thinkpad tablet/foldable.

Businesses are consumers.

The prices shouldn't be jacked up "because it's a tax write off", because the money is still coming from somewhere. It doesn't just disappear because you "wrote it off". The prices are this high because it's a grift, and "businesses" are run by dummies who don't know how to fight back against consumer exploitation.

You don't know how taxes work do you?

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It's a offset to how match tax a company has to pay.

Please stop, you don't know what you're talking about and your ignorant attitude is exactly the reason this stuff is running rampant.

"No, it's a tax write off, it's magic. Don't you also hate David Zaslav because he killed your favorite cartoonies for his TAXES!!!"

This is EXACTLY right.. companies have images for this exact reason , downtime costs our company around $10k a system a day on each laptop we have (we've got around 1000 end users and around 1300 machines). This is why we have 100 spare Dell's in storage and just re-image them as soon as we have a issue then deal with the broken one later then put that one into storage.

We don't care about the price jack up because what we are paying for is the warranty and quality of the machines, consumer grade machines simply DO NOT LAST in the office work place, We consider the tax write off as a bonus.

You stick to your idea that everyone is in it to scam etc but until you actually work in a office that has to deal with 1000+ business machines you'll never understand. I used to be a naive end user consumer like you til I got into the business world.

Again.. you should stay in your lane and keep to your consumer grade machines and let the big boys have their more expensive machines.

And you don't know about the difference between business grade quality/ warranties and consumer quality/ warranties.

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T420 forever! i still use 2 :)

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yup, excellent keys....and for me personally...all the ports :) i use mine as 'consoles' and general compute boxes for when i need windows or some weird app to keep older hardware useful.

No, the problem is that you are reviewing a Dell

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And they provide drivers for longer, different oses and provide cab files for deployment services

It's glorious.

Thinkpads are also great because they don't suffer from the "thin at all costs" problem mentioned in the article. For a work laptop, I want lots of different ports, including a full-on Ethernet port without a dongle. Sometimes you need that wired connection when traveling. And HDMI (without dongle) is also a must. Macs have ditched a lot of these ports, but Thinkpad still has them.

Never underestimate the ability of people to torture excel files. I've seen entire oil refinery models running in an excel spreadsheet and trust me, you'll need every bit of power from a core I7 and 32Gb of ram to make it work...

Haven't business laptops always been a bad deal? I bought an HP Omnibook 6000 on Sept 11th 2001 (yes, really) and it has been such a disaster that to this day I still use an unther-the-desk workstation as my primary cumputer. That machine has just completely ruined my ability to trust laptops. Thanks, HP.

I've got an x1 carbon nano, which is highly portable but the display and (especially) webcam are terrible.

that is exactly what they are saying. Tax policy is written to incentivize/disincentivize spending.

A perfect analogy is the 2017 tax act that changed the deductibility of private aviation. Previously the maximum deduction for a plane was the equivalent of a 1st class ticket for each trip taken. Now folks can deduct the full cost of owning/operating private. The folks selling planes are ecstatic because taxpayers are now subsidizing some portion of the costs of owning private planes

Business laptops are a bad deal if you buy them retail, without a doubt. Businesses get service and hardware deals from Dell, and buy these computers in bulk, which cuts down the per unit cost a good bit.

Even then, based on specs they're still not a "great deal" but as other people have touched on in this thread, the extended support with drivers, bios updates and on-site service that gets rolled in with these business focused models makes them a much less "wasteful" purchase when done that way. The business focused models tend to not have as many hardware revisions, so the same driver packages and images can be used over a longer time period.

The article is right in saying your average consumer looking for 1 new laptop is better off buying something else, but insinuating that businesses are just wasting money on these is a more complex argument that I'm more spurious about.

Did they not teach you to be nice?

An HP dragonfly would be better if you want a lightweight magnesium chassis

I have a Dell Latitude 5430 for work. It is literal garbage. I could buy a $500 laptop tomorrow with a better CPU, Screen, Keyboard, and track pad. And I am sure my employer paid a grand for this piece of crap

Man I had that yoga s1 and absolutely loved it. Gave it to a buddy and it's still going strong. Would absolutely love an updated version with the same features (mechanically locking keyboard, stylus silo) but smaller bezels and modern internals. The size/form factor was perfect imo.

Edit: moved to a Lenovo legion 5, which I like (I got an especially good price on it) but it's worlds away when it comes to build quality and portability

Edit 2: I think I'm gonna try to find something cheap to give my buddy and get the yoga back, haha

The fascination with weight always amuses me. I want power with portability. How hard is it for people to carry an extra pound or two?

Did you mean 48 hours? Or actually 4 hours.. that's impressive if so

And when the sales rep has somehow put every opportunity, follow-up, and other details in that spreadsheet, in a convoluted, impossible-to-understand way (unless you are that individual), as both a "workflow" and "job security" (instead of a more sane option like Salesforce), and the spreadsheet is so large after just a few months that you need something overpowered to even get past the Preview screen...

Also consumer laptops come with Win 10 home and these Dells come with 10 pro.

I am switching a small business over right now to Dells enterprise line. They thought the cost was steep too, but I pointed to the stack of a dozen physically broken consumer grade laptops they’ve gone through, and the cost to relicense their machines Windows, and the warranty. And now they see the light.

Worth noting you can get last years models for like 60% off through Dell Premier so really they’re not that much more at all. And their sticker price is like 2x what things actually cost through Premier. So a $6k laptop might be $1500 to the company.

‘Gaming’ laptops are a rip off as well

These laptops completely suck out all the fun from using a laptop, specifically the Latitude 5000 series which are more for your regular type employee.

You'd think that business want their employees to stay productive, looking at these laptops all day with their bland designs, screens and speaker is a pain

Yes, there is an actual reason there are business class devices and consumer class devices. It's not because businesses are quirky and want a different badge on their laptops to make them feel special.

Jeepers, what do you use that badboy for?

Ironically, one of my Thinkpads is a "thin at all costs" one - the X1 Carbon. Still has a solid selection of ports though.

They maintained the lift-n-lock keyboard for a while, but ultimately dropped it to get the size more under control. I have to agree with their decision, while it was a neat feature I didn't use it that often, and it came with a pretty massive weight/size penalty, especially when you wanted to use it as a tablet.

> including a full-on Ethernet port without a dongle

Thinkpads use a dongle now. :(

As someone who’s worked with Dell’s enterprise servers and support. Yes it is 4 hours. It’s insane but so incredibly valuable when you’ve got production workloads on the line.

I got dumber reading this.

I have one and use them to spin up different VMs out in the field to work on different industrial automation devices. We get the rugged ones though they come with a handle dual batteries so I can actually work all day without charging it and it has a handle and a built in rs232 port.

Simplistic? Yes Ignorant? Because i told the fact? Lol

That's wild! I can definitely see the need to increase the cost of the product in that instance

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T520 and X220 still in use here. They both have SSDs and maxed out ram and are used for nothing other than web browsing in a few uploads online. Youtube is becoming a problem given the high bit rate but you can still watch YouTube on both of them easily keeping it at 7:20 P. Both machines will go until well beyond my bones have crumbled into dust, have more clever features and cool ways of getting things done than any modern machine I’ve ever seen, and not for nothing but both of them have fallen down the stairs multiple times been sat on spilt milk even on one of them(that cleanup sucked) and have both been around since bush was in office but are both still trucking!

Work. I work in video games, 128GB ram is pretty much our minimum spec or you wouldn't be able to binarize some of our maps. And the laptop comes with a 3080Ti because that's the only card that comes with 16GB vram(outside of the quattro range).

Business class laptops, MacBooks, etc are well worth the money. Cheap consumer level shit is pure garbage.

When you are constantly traveling and lugging your laptop around or between meetings and such? Personally I want stuff as light as possible.

My company is about to start delivering our automation products to the field. Spinning up VMs to work on equipment sounds much more modern than the old technician with a clunky laptop approach. Can you describe the benefits you get from this approach and maybe a bit about your workflow? I'm really curious about how you would operate.

Well when you have 5 vendors that sell five different product line that require varying levels of licencing you need vms to keep everything separate. For instance there's extremely old Allan Bradley equipment out there 30, 20, 15 years old you need vms to store those softwares on them so you can communicate with old equipment. You need it to keep customers separate and you need it so you can just stop the virtual machine if there's any issues within the environment you've created. But....it's still just on a laptop for the field stuff. It's just an extremely expensive laptop. When I'm sitting in my shop we have a virtual environment that I can log into and do what I need to. We still have clunky laptops you're honestly not going to come sweeping in and replace that aspect in the near future there's to much old shit out there still. I mean hell I just worked on a GE 90-30 that's still in service this week. That's....older than most people on Reddit.

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Yes. I have this piece of crap from work. The screen is terrible compared to my personal MacBook Air.

I do wonder how people break so many laptops.

Why shouldn’t all expenses be deductible? Why is private aviation any different from other businesses?

I don’t think you know what a tax write off is…because buying laptops for your business is not it

The laptop is added weight rather than the only weight you’re carrying.

As a baseline I am lugging my laptop to and from the office via public transport 3 days per week (yay hybrid). On there trips I am carrying a backpack with lunch, water, gym gear, a few papers and the laptop.

Then there’s the 2ish business trips per month where the laptop is carried through airports and hotels, getting used in lounges and cafes. For these trips it’s in a backpack with a power adaptor, many more papers, pens etc and whatever else I need for that day on the road.

All this is giving me a bad back!

because an "expense" that isn't directly business related shouldn't be deductible

you could argue that your home heating bill is "business related" in that you couldn't do business the next day with the zero sleep you would get without heat but the tax code has to collect something to pay for govt services.

Alternatively we could simply tax revenue and the tax code wouldn't favor any type of "expense" but our system is based on "profit"

Yeah, my G4 Yoga has 2 USB-C, 2 USB-A, HDMI, and headphone jack. There does exist a "thin at all costs" Thinkpad, but that's the Nano, which does only have 2 USB-C and a headphone jack, but it's way smaller than everything else decent on the market and will still have a better keyboard.

Taxing revenue is fine, so long as the tax is low. Many businesses are unprofitable, so a heavy burden on top would reduce the incentive to start a business.

On that note, a flat tax would be nice.

It's The Verge. Nothing but Apple products will do for anyone there. Most especially since they get all that shit free from Apple.

7560 and it's expensive and trash.

I edited it to Busch as I had simply forgotten what year it was also insert that saving Private Ryan getting older gif here however I would personally state that even if it was President Obama given that it’s been 12 years since he stopped at office that still quite a long time for a machine to be running just like I did the day it was opened

In most places, you are able to use computers to decrease the profits used to calculate your tax if you're a business. The relevant law in the US is MACRS which allows you to claim depreciation of certain assets (which includes computers) as a deduction. This may be spread over a set period (5-6 years for computers) or potentially claimed all at once (via a section 179 deduction). Generally speaking, the amount you'll be able to deduct is approximately equal to the cost, if it's solely for business use.

In many contexts, "tax write-off" and "tax deduction" are used as synonyms. The IRS calls this sort of thing a deduction, so I'd say it's fair to call it a write-off too.

Lot of times it’s the warranty/support difference.

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unless you find them absurdly cheap in which case go nuts

Refurbished Latitudes are cheap and great. I don't need the latest and greatest features for my portable work computer.

But how do you make your PCMK card work without a PCMCIA slot? DH+ at 57.6kb is all you need! /s

Pre VMware I had multiple hard drives for different era controllers. Was really fun in the bad old days of when you could only have one Logix 5000 version installed at a time.

Main thing is it’s pretty much impossible to upgrade them and like 99% of them have overheating issues when playing anything too graphic intensive.

Definitely not worth the price. Just buy a desktop or get a switch

who would a flat tax be good for? certainly not an economy that is 70% consumption

you clowns are so naive it is fucking scary

That is a very old laptop.

Lmao. Its less than 2 years old.

The prices are high because sending a tech within 4 hours to wherever the hell you happen to be when something gets fucked is expensive.

The prices are high because confining to use obsolete parts that have to be sourced from “sketchy yeti manufacturing company” because the enterprises imaged for them is expensive.

The prices are high because these machines are paying for themselves every hour with the amount of value produced for the company and most business would happily pay many times their cost for them. Supply & Demand

>Businesses also can afford it because it's a tax write off

That's not how tax write-offs work.

As you noted above, businesses buy them because they're rock-solid and come with top-notch service for the rare times they aren't.

>In most places, you are able to use computers to decrease the profits used to calculate your tax if you're a business.

Spending a buck you don't need to spend simply to save paying twenty-eight cents in taxes is a horrible financial idea.

I still have two T61s, chugging along just fine. I have a client still running a T43. They will not die.

My work paid for my business laptop so it’s fine

What do you do that your employees generate 2 million a year in revenue? Or at least avoid that much in costs?

Depends what you want them for. I want to be portable with the capability to play recent games at good enough quality and an ability to run CAD and software when I need. Can't be portable with a desktop, can't get the performance with something that's only $800 the cheapest category of laptop.

Yes, but it means that the quoted price is 28% higher than the cost you actually pay. If they say a laptop will cost 1000, the actual cost is something like 750 for you. That means that higher prices on business laptops aren't entirely felt by the business customer - and if you are getting other stuff in the deal like on-site service, it's worth it.

No one calls that a tax write off. That’s just normal operating expense, of course you can deduct depreciation expenses from taxes but as a business you don’t make decisions based on depreciation expenses and buying computers to save money on taxes. You’re buying assets to help you produce more and grow your profits at the end of the day which is the primary goal of the business. So I would argue those computers will make your employees more productive which will raise profits and taxes at the end of the day, which is perfectly normal.

Yet again…more insults that aren’t even relevant. I’ll just assume you’re a leftist.

As for who said tax benefits, it’s everyone who isn’t super wealthy, but for different reasons, except for tax professionals, obviously. I’ll give one example for each type of payer.

Ordinary employees benefit from a simplified tax code with reduced time and cost during filing season. An obvious counterpoint is that the IRS could do our taxes for us, and I agree. While, yes, many would pay more, nobody would escape taxes through the various schemes available to those with the ability, or means to hire pros, to hide profits legally.

Business owners would have a double-edged sword, ‘tis true, but the simplification would help many potential entrepreneurs who aren’t mathematically savvy to be able to determine the legitimacy of any business ideas, without acquiring expensive accounting experts. The downside is the obvious issue of being flat taxed on revenue, which was part of the original discussion, could easily lead to severe losses early.

Large corporations will likely lose out since revenue, generally, isn’t as easily hidden as profits. Thus, it’s likely a net loss to them.

As for billionaires, it’s definitely a loss. They’re forced to pay a flat tax on all personal income. The loophole of borrowing money against their corporations’ earnings is no longer viable due to the aforementioned business taxation.

Progressive taxation is wrong. The best way to pay for a system if governance is to have everyone pay an equal percentage. A flat tax both accomplishes that and simplifies the process, thus leading to better efficiency and lower cost of enforcement. You’ll notice that’s the argument for universal health care, lowered costs through efficiency and economies of scale.

As for the consumption angle, shifting our economy to a different form, likely with less unnecessary consumption and, hopefully, to more useful spending of time, should be good from the left’s angle. Reducing consumption, reduces inflation (hopefully leading to a period of deflation to bring our economy in line with main street), while helping the environment.

There’s much more to be said, but that’s enough for tonight.

$400 Steam Deck is a great deal.

I hate ThinkPad for putting the fn key on the right of ctrl

Edit: I meant left

Yes you could, and if you now buy that laptop for every one of your colleagues lets see how the costs will soar. These devices are consumer devices. They are built to be cheap not to be durable and last. IT will have so much shit in supporting these devices. Hell I’ve even thrown out the Microsoft Surface line because the amount of issues we had with those was 10 times of what we had with the other laptops we had. Stop comparing business laptops with consumer grade devices…

That’s not included in the price, though - it’s an additional service on top with certain products, and you only pay for it if you really need it.

> if you are getting other stuff in the deal like on-site service,

You’re not. It’s an additional paid service. They only offer it on certain ranges of laptops, though.

> We use them at work because there’s a 3 year onsite warranty[…]. This is what you are paying for.

That’s misleading. That warranty does not come as standard in the price. You’re paying for a laptop that can have that warranty, if you’re also willing to pay extra for it on top.

> without finding the NIC has changed and the drivers I’ve bundled don’t work.

Man, I wish that was true. Sure, they’re not going to change it without saying, but finding that your exact model number is no longer available, and now they can only supply one with slightly different internals due to parts shortages, is not as rare as I would like.

Luckily we’ve moved on from imaging devices, so it’s no longer a problem.

DDR4 instead of LPDDR5? Good bye.

Employess don’t take care of company property because it’s not their property. Hell, some people can’t even take care of their own shit, let alone something lent to them.

What a dumb argument. They can expense both a $1000 laptop and a $2000 laptop. The relative difference is still going to be the same. Just because that $2000 effectively becomes $1500 doesn’t mean it’s less than the $1000, which effectively becomes $750. The $2k one is still twice as expensive.

Wait why wouldn’t that work? I always thought that was exactly how that worked

I’m aware of the realities of corporate procurement. It’s actually not really about the durability. It’s about the fact that Dell can provide laptops for a 10,000+ person organization and the fact that they will provide five year warranty. I know why things are done the way It does not make me hate my Dell latitude any less.

What would make it a tax write off? Its just a regular business expense.

Business laptops are like Business class plane tickets or Marriot hotels. only exist because some corporate black hole is paying for it where $1000 vs. $200 is a rounding error.

in eu also

As someone that uses public transport yes, extra pounds start being a nuissance real fast

Whether it’s a self-employment situation or a mega-corporation, the same thing holds - it is never worth making a purchase you don’t need in order to “save on taxes”.

For ease of math - let’s say revenue of $10,000, expenses of $5,000, 20% taxes. In that situation, you’ll pay $1,000 in taxes on your $5,000 of net income because yes, you can deduct legit expenses from your taxable business income.

If you decided during that year to spend $1,000 on a computer you don’t need, now you have expenses of $6,000, so you’ll pay taxes instead on $4,000 of net income - 20% of that would lead to a $800 tax liability.

So you spent $1,000 to save $200 - purchasing that computer still cost $800.

I use a 3430 for work, and it’s a piece of shit. The palm rejection on the touch pad is hot garbage. All the ports are on the right side(?!?) which is the side I use the mouse, so it’s inconvenient as hell.

I wish I could get my Latitude 7470 back.

Everything is “too expensive”

Sadly they have 10L cell limit

Every single thing that has a commercial application is too expensive.

Have you seen the price of fucking chairs?

I'd bet any amount of money that if the world flipped upside down tomorrow and corporations didn't want to buy a single chair to fill their offices, you'd suddenly stop seeing plastic mesh stretched over a plastic core being sold for $800+ dollars.

There’s a whole fiasco with windows 10 updates and buggy drivers or hardware with HP elitebooks. It’s either the graphics or network or sound that bugs out, and it’s always fixed in firmware somehow.

The X13 is the only Lenovo I’ve had trouble with, but it was Gen 1 so that may be the issue. But I use T and L models every day

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Good thing we have choices, eh? It’s not as if the only choices we have are thin and light devices

If you provide support contracts, failing to resolve issues in the stipulated time could very well become a 10k fine.

But you folks realize that prices for laptops and notebooks back write now to the same level as in 90`s - but without inflation increase? (this mean: the price is the same in numbers, but it`s still cheaper according to inflation).

Not trying to argue here,

But are you factoring in a depreciation schedule on the laptop? This is where it really starts to have an impact on tax liability.

No it doesn’t. Depreciating means you spread out the expense over multiple years. For example instead of the expense being 1000 in year one, you will have 200 for 5 years. Total tax saved still 200 over this time period

For a single purchase sure it doesn't make much of a difference.

however if say you have a $1000 tax liability, and having say 5 laptops that $200 x 5 now made you have $0 liability ( honestly the numbers really only make sense when we are talking 100s or thousands of machines).

Is how I have come to understand how it can help with taxes. but honestly no one single thing helps but many different types of deductions combined together.

Again not trying to argue, but get a better understanding.

It’s still the same, ofcourse if you need them it helps you lower your taxes. But if you are buying them just to write off the tax then you are spending more than you’re saving. As said, when you spend 1000 to save 200 on taxes you’re just losing 800. Unless as I said you need them, but that was not the point made.

Ah yeah ok i understand what the point is now, yeah doesn't make sense to buy 5 pcs if they aren't being used financially speaking.

You can swap them in the BIOS setup.

I have a Lenovo W550s that is still killing it, running OpenSuSe and I still recommend them. Getting caught with spyware/adware really helped bring them back to the userbase for cost and delivery.

And for customer service, the first one shipped had 2 dead pixels, they sent me another brand new and said "here's the return label, just take you're time and thank-you"... that sold me.

yeah i accidentally broke mine and i just sold it for spare parts

i did get 25% of what i paid for it back though

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I don’t think I’ve been more frustrated than having to treat a live excel file as a database and having to update it with like 6 other people who fight to filter or sort it in a specific way and delete values on accident and blame the other person.

Yes but I'm not looking for a tiny screen with terrible computing performance. I need a laptop that can run engineering software.

they seems to forgo it in the latest series of thinkpads tho

That amount would be like a failed business for this many employees.

Guarantee you their revenue will be one or more magnitudes of order over 2 million per year.

Well that different hardware was a real problem during the pandemic. Dell wasn't able to pack the latitude drivers for all the hardware the build in and shipped out.

That's why the vostro line exists for companies that want to cheap out

Not unless it's a dell precision, those are also great

What does inflation have to do with weight?

Chromebooks? 🤣

Nah your wrong

Not really as their not made for business and their cards are made for gaming not rendering.

Dude a switch? That's the worst possible solution.

Dw he's just a walking L

It's a business laptop it's meant to be plain designed. That's why Thinkpads are always black with the red nub.

Well Thinkpads have their own design language and I think they look great!

They literally look identical now but with a red nub for Thinkpad and blue for latitude.

Dell removed the nub 2 generations ago

Guess it was useless after they bought that huge trackpad 😂

Says someone who obviously hasn’t had one.

They are not upgradable and they overheat if playing something too intense.

Lol. You have no clue obviously