Guess prepare for them to be even worse now as QC still has to ramp up in India. Ballsy move to put their most premium phoned in a new untested location, which as apple has seen is still far quality wise from traditional markets; should have probably gambled with the A series phones

Just like Apple. Transferring to the country with the most slaves. How progressive!

I am seeing that some people are so negative about anything related to a country they don't like that even just a report of shifting production of a product hurts them so much that they starts to rant about how it's QC will be major issues or how people of a developing countries are slaves. This is truly fucked up.

Yup, this is Reddit. If you're not Black or Hispanic, then you're fair game for racism lmao

It's not negativity or that I don't like the country? lol It's just a fact that India is loaded with slaves and I'm simply shining a light on the fact. I don't want them to be exploited further by giant tech companies. Guess we shouldn't talk about it so it goes unoticed.. that seems like the ideal solution /s haha

I'm trying to help them.

https://www.antislavery.org/what-we-do/past-projects/india-debt-bondage/

Guess we can't call them slaves we have to call them "bonded laborers" which is cough cough a slave.

I love everyone in the world and I don't want anyone to have to be a slave or a bonded laborer or whatever word you want to call it.

Samsung is taking the long view. Chinas working age population falls off the demographic cliff in just a few years, they are already suffering the effects now.

Too many old people, not enough young to support them. They’ll get ancient even faster than Japan did, but with the added dystopian malaise of a non-existent social safety net and a stock market that’s been fictional for decades.

Indias population, for better or worse (and generally it’s worse) is relentlessly growing.

The smart long-term manufacturing investment is NOT in China

India will replace China as the worlds manufacturing hub. It's in the early stages now, but as the supply chains start to build up the pace will increase exponentially. Hopefully this brings the Indian people wealth and stability. Xi screwed the golden goose picking fights with all of their neighbors.

I’m not buying any electronics that are made in India.

If there was any doubt that Apple has lost its way.....

Smart according to who? Are you trying to be a 21st Century Adam Smith? If you care anything about fairness, equality, social safety net, environmental standards that are actually enforced.... if you think any of these are important you would not support American companies manufacturing in India.

I disagree. America will re-shore it’s major manufacturing to North America. Replacing China with India is like replacing your car with an ox cart.

There will be near shoring of quite a few things to Mexico and North America for sure.

There simply aren’t enough workers for all of it though. We already have record low unemployment. Who would work all of these factories?

Samsung is not American

I mean everyone has to do job to make money and even if any company or big tech is coming in the country its giving Job opportunity which will further allow India or any third world country to Increase Human Development Index.

I’d only buy apple since they are keeping the QC at the same level

India is siding with China in Ukraine, it might not be the best idea, if they plan to sell to the Western Hemisphere.

There already skilled labour in Samsung manufacturing plants in india as Samsung have been manufacturing phones in india for quite a year. You can't make factories in an new country and expect the same production rate or quality as that new country would lack skilled labour for that problem, which was the case with apple but not with Samsung. It doesn't mean we indian are not normal human or are intelligent people as many in this sub previously implied, the situation would be same in anyother countries apart from china and maybe Vietnam including manufacturing in USA. Having a skilled labour is important.

Slavery is banned in india. Again paying appropriate amount of money for respective countries is not slavery. The cost of living of china, india and USA is extremely different thus different pay.

Your country should manage their prision slaves first, the number of prision slave in USA is comparable to china which has 4 times the population of USA.

Yeah I completely agree. Every country has extreme problems. Still doesn't take away from the fact that India has that many slaves outside of prison.

Yeah they definitely need big companies to help job growth. It just sucks all these major companies select third world countries and economically deprived countries just cause they know they can exploit the workers for the lowest wages possible. All so they can make insane profits themselves.

Ballsy move, given some of the issues Apple's been facing. It should get better over time but there's massive cultural & regulatory issues to solve for beyond just the labor skilling and operational efficiency issues.

Excerpts:

>At a casings factory in Hosur run by Indian conglomerate Tata, one of Apple’s suppliers, just about one out of every two components coming off the production line is in good enough shape to eventually be sent to Foxconn, Apple’s assembly partner for building iPhones, according to a person familiar with the matter.
This 50 per cent “yield” fares badly compared with Apple’s goal for zero defects. Two people that have worked in Apple’s offshore operations said the factory is on a plan towards improving proficiency but the road ahead is long.

>
>In China, suppliers and government officials took a “whatever it takes” approach to win iPhone orders. Former Apple employees describe instances in which they would estimate a certain task might take several weeks, only to show up the next morning to find it already completed at inexplicable speed.
Operations in India are not running at that sort of pace, said a former Apple engineer briefed on the matter: “There just isn’t a sense of urgency.”
A person involved in Apple operations said the process of expanding to India is slow in part because of logistics, tariffs and infrastructure. This person said Apple’s diversification into south-east Asia has been smoother thanks to the Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership, a free trade agreement among 10 regional nations.

​

>Wadhwa acknowledged that the fragmented, bureaucratic government in India was something Apple would need to adapt to. He suggested its engineers learn the art of jugaad — a way of “making do” or transcending obstacles. “Because everything in India is an obstacle,” he said.

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It's unfortunate but these large corporations are the only ones which can hire large low skilled or unskilled labour forces in India and other developing countries, and as abusive as they might be, their presence does help the economy and eventually the poor in those countries.

Indian and Chinese troops are literally poised to fight each other at the LAC.

Is India purchasing Russian oil?

Yea RUSSIAN oil not chinese oil.

Why

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We’re folding things up and moving to India…

Good point. Some reShoring is going on, but not large scale, yet. I stand by my oxcart remark.

I think there's a stigma when production shifts to a new country. I remember comments about Japanese stuff being terrible and how if you want quality you should buy stuff made in the USA. Once things started getting shifted to China, then it's how everything made in China is terrible and you should buy stuff made in Japan only!

The first few generations of Korean cars had the same stigma, at least for the cheapest stuff.

While I don’t disagree with your history of the stigmatization of the producing countries, I feel that you kinda point out that previously stigmatized production countries rose above those stigmas. Why not India?

I feel it'll take time. A lot of young people don't know about the past Japanese products' bad reputation. Even China hasn't risen above the stigmas yet.

That's happens when you shift you manufacturing plant to another country which may lack skilled labour to make those components. Given time it would solve. Samsung though already manufacture many things in india so won't face such problem.

It's not really a gatcha as you might expect.

Our prison are government owned and slavery is banned. At least learn something before commenting.

I agree the skilled labor issue would solve over time, but choosing to manufacture their most complex flagship product is what is ballsy here, when Apple is struggling on even making their lower end and simpler products in India.

Its relatively common to manufacture the latest product in country A and migrate production of that product to lower cost countries over time. For example, Gillette has always done that with their razors. But setting up your flagship manufacturing in a new country which doesnt have the needed infrastructure is a supremely risky move.

And as I mentioned - beside the labor issue, there is also the cultural issue. It's telling that Vivek Wadhwa is saying the solution is for Apple to learn "jugaad"; when the choice is developing a new set of jugaadu skills in India vs. setting up manufacturing in other SE Asian countries, the appeal of Indian manufacturing diminishes.

Could we not please? Terrible idea

They might, but their manufacturing now has huhe defect rates. Its not a false perspective.

Samsung isn't American and Adam Smith was brilliant.

Illegal doesn't mean nonexistent. We know it's banned, and we know it's still a problem.

Ask the locals if it sticks their country was chosen

I thought Samsung phones were made in Vietnam?

> The first few generations of Korean cars had the same stigma, at least for the cheapest stuff.

Kias/Hyundais small 4 cylinder engines for the US market were all recalled from 2010-2019 for catching fire: https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/local-news/up-in-flames/kias-and-hyundais-continue-to-burn-after-5-8-million-cars-and-suvs-recalled

For 2020+ models, only time will tell.

Problem is that apple might increase price if they are stuck with the same terrible QC that the indian manufacture is giving them.

Apple's india manufactured hardware failed apple's own QC at about 50% (compared to under 1% from china).

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> If you care anything about fairness, equality, social safety net, environmental standards...

Whether or not we care is different from whether or not corporations care.

The bigger problem is thinking that corporations actually care about us and want to do good.

Statistically the county with the most people should have the most slaves, rapists, murderers, and scammers.

Statistically they'll also have the most hard workers, honest people, doctors, engineers, and brilliant minds.

Population adjusted, North Korea, Eritrea and Burundi have the highest rates.

Apparently Samsung has quite a history in India:

> Samsung has been manufacturing mobile phones in India since 2007, and is the only brand that is truly made in India. Samsung India has been populating Printed Circuit Boards (PCBs) right from its inception.

> India will tally in 29% of Samsung's total global smartphone production --- a 9% rise from its current 20% contribution.

> Samsung's display arm begins OLED panel production at Noida plant

So with 15 years of experience making 20-30% of their smartphones in India, it doesn't seem too risky to finally try a flagship.

That doesn't compare to Apple experimenting with metal parts made by a car manufacturer, Tata/Jaguar.

Bonded labours sadly do happen in informal brick making but otherwise not really. I am not aware of prision slavery in india. The workers on factories are represented by various unions and so at the farmers.

TIL - that definitely changes my perspective. Although the reason I focused on the Apple example is because the Fold is also all about the chassis, the fact that Samsung has operated for other components means their learning curve is smaller relative to Apple.

Well considering many amount of companies are manufacturing in india compared to indonesia or Vietnam, something is really going well. Samsung already have quite a large mobile manufacturing facilities and now there are also some companies investing to making semiconductor so at least something is working.

Last one I had was actually made in Korea. They don’t make any in China. The last Samsung phone factory in China closed in 2019.

Never said it was...

Nah they will shift just enough to serve the Indian market. Due to high taxes this keeps them competitive in the local Indian market.

Not Dissing India in any way, just talking purely from a supply chain perspective. Samsung has been making mostly ultra cheap phones and M series in India, so a bit ballsy to move S and the folds there where the volume and quality requirements are extremely high. These were usually made in Vietnam and not china anyways, so interesting to see this play out and even have comparisons of the India made vs Vietnam made

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It's split between Vietnam and India by the looks of it, they also make some very high end models in Korea itself.

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