TrypMole t1_itmz6h5 wrote on October 24, 2022 at 8:52 PM

Reply to comment by onioning in [i ate] Pizza Margherita and pizza nudja by succulentchr69

People are downvoting because Nduja is popular because of Italy, not America. Here in the UK a few years back it became the awesome new thing on "This random celebrity travels round Italy" type cooking shows, very quickly after that it was on every cooking show, it was the new trendy ingredient. Nothing to do with America, everything to do with Italy. Ask a Brit where Nduja comes from and if they've heard of it they'll rightly say Italy, most won't even have a clue it even exists in America. Its really reaching to say a southern Italian food is popular in northern Italy because of America. You gonna claim Tropea onions next?

onioning t1_itn8a0h wrote on October 24, 2022 at 9:53 PM

Obviously Nduja comes from Italy. Of course.

Again, consider these facts and then tell me I'm being unreasonable.

Nduja existed in Calabria for a long time. I don't know how long. A very long time. It was not unknown outside of Calabria, but was very rarely seen.

Nduja in it's American form got super popular and trendy.

Right after that it started appearing outside of Calabria.

Come on. I'm not being unreasonable here. This is also perfectly normal and how food trends often work. They can even bounce back and forth a la Japanese Curry in the US.

American cultural influence is outsized. That happens when you're rich. American culinary scenes impacting culinary scenes elsewhere is the norm of modern times. Italy is by no means a stranger to this. It's an economic reality. It isn't just random circumstance that what was a local specialty started appearing all over Italy. Same forces have done wonders for the arugula industry. There's an entire existing industry of Italian Pepperoni, as in Italian takes on the American idea of pepperoni. This is all normal. What's popular sells, and when a thing gets popular in America it sells a whole lot. It's not a good thing, but it's definitely a true thing.

I've worked in Italy with chefs and salumi producers and it's a running joke when I ask "I thought such and such was an American thing?" Because it is, and they're a business, and they know their clients. Mostly manifests in a passionate hatred for smoking anything, but it's very definitely a thing. British trends similarly impact the nations where Brits historically spent lots of money.

TrypMole t1_itp0kd4 wrote on October 25, 2022 at 7:03 AM

Yes. You're being unreasonable because you're assuming America has a greater influence on European cuisine than other European countries, which is crazy. We are literally right next door to each other and you are several timezones away on a different continent. What do you really think is more likely that European cuisine spread to its neighbours or that we just don't try anything our neighbours eat until America tells us to? That's like me saying "wow, they must have KC BBQ in New York now cause its popular in Britain "

Added to which I've been visiting Calabria for about 20 years and I've only seen a notable amount of Americans there since Covid, before that very few if any. Northern Italians though? Yeah, LOADS of them, it's where they go on holiday.

onioning t1_itqumii wrote on October 25, 2022 at 5:10 PM

>Yes. You're being unreasonable because you're assuming America has a greater influence on European cuisine than other European countries, which is crazy.

Nope. I did not assume that. I've even explicitly stated otherwise by pointing out that there is British cultural imperialism too. Not as powerful as the American (now) because it's about wealth and America has the most wealth. Worth noting at one time in history is was the Italians who were the dominant global power and hence the cultural imperialists. But in 2022 it's the US.

I have also talked about other ways that food culture has bounced around. In no way whatsoever have I suggested that the US is the only nation that impacts others. You are making that up.

Again, this isn't some blind "this was popular here so it must be popular there because of here." The timing is the point. It would be a stupid crazy coincidence if Nduja just happened to get popular throughout Italy just after it got popular in the US. A coincidence is not a reasonable conclusion. Regardless, the circumstance at minimum make my conclusion plausible.

There's also a ton of history of this happening. The organization Slow Food literally exists to oppose American cultural imperialism. But folks here think it doesn't exist? Come on.

sneer0101 t1_itqbba1 wrote on October 25, 2022 at 3:04 PM

You think this way because you're completely ignorant about how the rest of the world works.

onioning t1_itqto28 wrote on October 25, 2022 at 5:04 PM

So you don't think that economic forces exist that make businesses tend to adjust to meet the need of their clientele? I'm entirely wrong about that? It's "completely ignorant?"

Give me a break. You people are gaslighting me. Pretending McDonald's doesn't exist. Pretending you can't get burgers and fries in Italy. This is ridiculous. Head deeply deeply buried in sand.

The whole Slow Food movement very literally exists to counter the American presence. A massive movement with people all over the world, founded in Italy to oppose what you say is "completely ignorant." Right.

But no. I'm sure American cultural imperialism is entirely a figment of my imagination. That must be it.