[i ate] Pizza Margherita and pizza nudjaSubmitted by succulentchr69 t3_yc5igc in food
onioning t1_itlz3l5 wrote
Reply to comment by QuentinVance in [i ate] Pizza Margherita and pizza nudja by succulentchr69
I wonder if it's a back and forth thing. Is Nduja now more common in the North because of the American popularity? I was one of the people who did the original US Nduja, so it's kind of cool to think we caused this to happen (if indeed it has happened).
Edit: wtf? No idea why such an innocuous and true statement is getting downvoted. People get offended by the weirdest shit.
Jindabyne1 t1_itm1u39 wrote
Americans want to take credit for everything
RedDordit t1_itmkkag wrote
Remember pizza? Yeah, we discovered it in Naples, tweaked the ingredients a bit making our own version, and we popularized it in northern Italy and then in all the world.
Source: Murica
Jindabyne1 t1_itmkqx6 wrote
I can’t believe you just said that.
RedDordit t1_itml7q7 wrote
You don’t believe I was making fun on the guy you replied to?
Jindabyne1 t1_itmldgp wrote
I just realised and you replied before I had a chance to edit my comment. Americans have actually said nearly the exact same thing though.
RedDordit t1_itmlsgm wrote
Let them do what they do best
QuentinVance t1_itm309j wrote
>I was one of the people who did the original US Nduja
Not exactly sure what you mean or where this sentence comes from..
Nduja is a typical product of the southern parts of Italy. As far as I know, it's not really that popular, but if it is... that's got nothing to do with America.
onioning t1_itm4u39 wrote
The American product is a bit different. The Italian product doesn't exist in the US, but the americanized version we created has gotten pretty popular.
There are now several brands making the americanized version we developed. Since it's become much more popular in the US that could explain how and why it's spread out of the South. Wouldn't be the first time this happened. It's a pretty normal thing really.
Again note that Nduja was not typically found outside Calabria. Now it's more commonly found outside Calabria. What has changed is that now it's trendy in the US. Sorry. Thought all this was already clear.
reflix8 t1_itmibiv wrote
what are u even talking about
onioning t1_itmk455 wrote
I don't know what's unclear. Nduja used to be unseen outside of Calabria. Then the American version was made and it got really popular. Now it's seen all over Italy. Those things could plausibly be unrelated, but probably not.
Worth noting that my view here was informed by listening to Italian chefs and salumi experts. Except they just present it as fact while I hedge with "probablies."
None of this should be in any way contentious. More reddit with sticks up butts for no reason.
RedDordit t1_itmkeu5 wrote
You think northern Italians know anything about fake Italian food y’all do in America? I don’t mean to shit on you, every country makes up their own version of foreign food, and there’s nothing wrong with that.
But to think that a certain dish had to pass through the US to get from Calabria to northern Italy is simply stupid. Don’t you think maybe, just maybe, geographically and culturally we’re closer to each other than we are to the US?
onioning t1_itmldx5 wrote
No. I'm not saying anything like that. But American culinary trends do most definitely impact Italian culinary trends. There are too many American tourists for a nation with so much tourism to just not care. So of course they follow trends. You know, like everyone who caters to tourists. Do you think Italian chefs don't pay attention to the American culinary scene?
So really, you don't find this plausible? From whenever Nduja was invented until the early 2010s it was almost unseen outside Calabria. Then it got really trendy in the US. Now it's seen throughout Italy. You don't think those things could plausibly be connected? Has to be just a coincidence? Come on. I'm not saying it's definite, but its very likely. Certainly plausible.
Incidentally, while still not exactly widespread, American style pepperoni did a similar thing. Started as a southern Italian salami, got changed in the US, and now there are producers of their take on it all over Italy. The US is fucking historically rich. Of course that has an impact.
Also the American version is not fake. It's fucking delicious too.
East-Seawness56 t1_itncqgt wrote
Dude I'm italian I can assure you 100% italians aren't doing anything based on what Americans think or what's trendy in America, they don't care at all. They'll serve you what they make and if Americans don't like it theyll tell you to leave or fcuck off. And where are you finding American style pepperoni on pizza or something similar, in the south atleast I've never seen such a thing it doesn't exist
onioning t1_itndl5u wrote
Ok man. And all the Italians I've worked with are just making it all up. Lived there for about a year and a half on the by and by. Working with chefs and salumiere (mostly the latter, but they do love to mingle). Universally decried the American influence. And would talk about nothing else. Seriously got old.
If you don't think you can more readily find bacon or pepperoni in a larger city because of the American influence you're fooling yourself. There are McDonald's! All sorts of US fast food. But you think there's no influence? Come on. That's just ridiculous.
And again, fancy places are doing it for their tourist customers. Of course they pay attention to what their tourist customers do. Arguing otherwise is silly. That's how the world works.
East-Seawness56 t1_ito6jq9 wrote
I'm not going back and forth on this, I don't really care if you supposedly lived there for a year even if it's hypothetically true it doesn't make you italian or knowing the culture and how they only talked about American influence i know for a fact thats a lie most europeans look down on American cuisine and the only thing they like or can be impressed with is the big gluttinous portions. You sound like one of those annoying americans who goes abroad on vacation for a week and thinks theyre a conniseur on that country. Also a lot of larger cities in italy dont like tourism and dont want them there, which i dont get because the money it brings in, so they're not going to cater to their stupidity. The closest thing you'll find to bacon is pancetta and salamis, "pepperoni" in itsly is literally aliced peppers the vegetable on pizza.
McDonald's is everywhere so that point is proving nothing, I have a McDonald's post on my account from Italy when I was there in the summer for my cousins wedding
onioning t1_itoe8j3 wrote
>McDonald's is everywhere so that point is proving nothing, I have a McDonald's post on my account from Italy when I was there in the summer for my cousins wedding
That's the whole point. They are everywhere, because American influence is everywhere. You seriously going to argue that McDonald's isn't American influence? That's ridiculous. You just aren't being serious about this. Just making up reasons to be outraged.
Seriously find one established Italian chef who doesn't think there's such thing as American influence in modern Italian. Or just recognize the realities all around you. But no, I'm sure it's actually that shitty burgers and fries just happened to develop independently in Italy. Totally not American influence. Come one. What a crazy lie to tell yourself.
East-Seawness56 t1_itof0jt wrote
You're the one whose outraged I don't know why you're getting all bent out of shape and butt hurt arguing with everyone over American influence, go to bed dude seriously. Go find something else go be passionate about and stand on a hill for. You're literally the definition of an annoying american abroad
onioning t1_itoii4q wrote
Outraged? What are you talking about? How am I outraged? I think it's dumb that people downvote very legitimate statements, but whatever. Not really my business. The outraged are the people who are all "No. This one place on Earth is somehow free from American business interests."
Quit it with that troll garbage. You can argue without being a jerk. Just don't. You know jack squat about me except that I recognize the impact American cultural imperialism has. Don't go into that insult garbage. Disagree however much you want. Upvote and downvote as you like. Don't be a jerk. I haven't been rude to anyone. Just uncalled for.
[deleted] t1_itoi4ng wrote
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East-Seawness56 t1_ito7gj6 wrote
Also how where you in italy over a year more than 3 months you need a visa and its only up to a year, they're not gonna give you a work visa for a tourist to go work in a salumeria to find the job randomly once they're already there
onioning t1_itoebkg wrote
I was not a tourist. It was my career. I had work agreements with my hosts.
East-Seawness56 t1_itoepbv wrote
Thats not answering the question, italy doesn't give visas once you're already there you need to get them in your native country at the consulate, what are you saying you went to italy, got a job in a salumeria and they went all out and through hoops to get you a visa? That is very unlikely
onioning t1_itohy0f wrote
No. I had a job in the US. The people I worked for in the US had a partnership with Italian producers. I worked with those producers. It's not hard to get the visas when you have legitimate reasons.
Maybe instead of trying to make things up to make me wrong you'll consider what I'm actually saying and not these other things.
[deleted] t1_itmn7l4 wrote
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[deleted] t1_itmrvs4 wrote
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sneer0101 t1_itqaujr wrote
>But American culinary trends do most definitely impact Italian culinary trends
No they don't. At all.
You really do think the world revolves around you and its pure delusion.
onioning t1_itqtrpy wrote
Where did McDonald's come from? Are burgers and fries an inherently Italian food?
Come on. This is insane.
TrypMole t1_itmz6h5 wrote
People are downvoting because Nduja is popular because of Italy, not America. Here in the UK a few years back it became the awesome new thing on "This random celebrity travels round Italy" type cooking shows, very quickly after that it was on every cooking show, it was the new trendy ingredient. Nothing to do with America, everything to do with Italy. Ask a Brit where Nduja comes from and if they've heard of it they'll rightly say Italy, most won't even have a clue it even exists in America. Its really reaching to say a southern Italian food is popular in northern Italy because of America. You gonna claim Tropea onions next?
onioning t1_itn8a0h wrote
Obviously Nduja comes from Italy. Of course.
Again, consider these facts and then tell me I'm being unreasonable.
Nduja existed in Calabria for a long time. I don't know how long. A very long time. It was not unknown outside of Calabria, but was very rarely seen.
Nduja in it's American form got super popular and trendy.
Right after that it started appearing outside of Calabria.
Come on. I'm not being unreasonable here. This is also perfectly normal and how food trends often work. They can even bounce back and forth a la Japanese Curry in the US.
American cultural influence is outsized. That happens when you're rich. American culinary scenes impacting culinary scenes elsewhere is the norm of modern times. Italy is by no means a stranger to this. It's an economic reality. It isn't just random circumstance that what was a local specialty started appearing all over Italy. Same forces have done wonders for the arugula industry. There's an entire existing industry of Italian Pepperoni, as in Italian takes on the American idea of pepperoni. This is all normal. What's popular sells, and when a thing gets popular in America it sells a whole lot. It's not a good thing, but it's definitely a true thing.
I've worked in Italy with chefs and salumi producers and it's a running joke when I ask "I thought such and such was an American thing?" Because it is, and they're a business, and they know their clients. Mostly manifests in a passionate hatred for smoking anything, but it's very definitely a thing. British trends similarly impact the nations where Brits historically spent lots of money.
TrypMole t1_itp0kd4 wrote
Yes. You're being unreasonable because you're assuming America has a greater influence on European cuisine than other European countries, which is crazy. We are literally right next door to each other and you are several timezones away on a different continent. What do you really think is more likely that European cuisine spread to its neighbours or that we just don't try anything our neighbours eat until America tells us to? That's like me saying "wow, they must have KC BBQ in New York now cause its popular in Britain "
Added to which I've been visiting Calabria for about 20 years and I've only seen a notable amount of Americans there since Covid, before that very few if any. Northern Italians though? Yeah, LOADS of them, it's where they go on holiday.
onioning t1_itqumii wrote
>Yes. You're being unreasonable because you're assuming America has a greater influence on European cuisine than other European countries, which is crazy.
Nope. I did not assume that. I've even explicitly stated otherwise by pointing out that there is British cultural imperialism too. Not as powerful as the American (now) because it's about wealth and America has the most wealth. Worth noting at one time in history is was the Italians who were the dominant global power and hence the cultural imperialists. But in 2022 it's the US.
I have also talked about other ways that food culture has bounced around. In no way whatsoever have I suggested that the US is the only nation that impacts others. You are making that up.
Again, this isn't some blind "this was popular here so it must be popular there because of here." The timing is the point. It would be a stupid crazy coincidence if Nduja just happened to get popular throughout Italy just after it got popular in the US. A coincidence is not a reasonable conclusion. Regardless, the circumstance at minimum make my conclusion plausible.
There's also a ton of history of this happening. The organization Slow Food literally exists to oppose American cultural imperialism. But folks here think it doesn't exist? Come on.
sneer0101 t1_itqbba1 wrote
You think this way because you're completely ignorant about how the rest of the world works.
onioning t1_itqto28 wrote
So you don't think that economic forces exist that make businesses tend to adjust to meet the need of their clientele? I'm entirely wrong about that? It's "completely ignorant?"
Give me a break. You people are gaslighting me. Pretending McDonald's doesn't exist. Pretending you can't get burgers and fries in Italy. This is ridiculous. Head deeply deeply buried in sand.
The whole Slow Food movement very literally exists to counter the American presence. A massive movement with people all over the world, founded in Italy to oppose what you say is "completely ignorant." Right.
But no. I'm sure American cultural imperialism is entirely a figment of my imagination. That must be it.
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