Submitted by JanaCinnamon t3_10pej9d in explainlikeimfive
AshFraxinusEps t1_j6kyrq0 wrote
Reply to comment by Truth-or-Peace in ELI5: Why do so many fruits have seedless varieties but the apple and cherry do not? by JanaCinnamon
> it went the way of the
>
>silphium
I've been thinking about this recently. I doubt it is fully extinct? Surely we could excavate and try to find a seed? This was a common plant all over the med, so why would it be completely gone without a single surviving seed?
ShalmaneserIII t1_j6l1u86 wrote
Even if that seed exists, how will you know what it is?
"Needle in a haystack" is nothing compared to "small seed somewhere in North Africa"
AshFraxinusEps t1_j6mlnfx wrote
Don't we know some major islands which were giant farms for the stuff? And maybe the plant is valuable enough to fund the digs to find the seeds
Redshift2k5 t1_j6l4wu3 wrote
we don't know for sure the identity of the plant. good luck planting every seed from every archeological site in the Roman empire to see which is silphium
AshFraxinusEps t1_j6moq6m wrote
> good luck planting every seed from every archeological site in the Roman empire to see which is silphium
This is more the problem. But could be worth it, bearing in mind how historically important it was. We may have modern equivalents, but I bet that the medicinal value in modern times would be quite high too tbh
Redshift2k5 t1_j6n11p0 wrote
Just planting seeds isn't enough. If it was a hybrid they often don't have viable offspring or the offspring are different from parent hybrid plants.
The last stalk of silphium was given to empower Nero. They knew exactly what the plant was and they knew when it was no longer being cultivated.
johnn48 t1_j6lghf1 wrote
I ran across an interesting article which addressed just that point. A number of hypotheses were presented: 1) that the plant reproduced asexually by spreading its roots, 2) that the climate contributed to its demise, 3) that it grew in a narrow geographical area and was harvested to extinction. These are my narrow take of the article but it’s a definite must read.
AshFraxinusEps t1_j6mznsg wrote
Interesting, and cheers. I did think we'd eventually rediscover it, as it was too widespread to be completely gone (although those are famous last words of conservationists throughout history)
From your points, while the link says it is slow growing, only .1 really would excuse it going completely extinct, as if it reproduced by asexual budding then any buds in the soil would have long-since died. But from the link, it does seem seed-based and therefore it'd be odd to be completely extinct
Cannie_Flippington t1_j6lg07z wrote
There's a theory they might have found it on Crete recently, actually.
The_Middler_is_Here t1_j6m3qzv wrote
I asked this question a while back about the effects. It doesn't answer your question, but it turns out that nobody called it a contraceptive until a hundred years after it went extinct. Assuming it wasn't a totally ineffective treatment, it was, at best, a seriously toxic plant that would hopefully kill the baby before the mom.
DjShoryukenZ t1_j6l2mcz wrote
> I think the Romans might have had a decent seedless apple at one point
I doubt there are seeds of a seedless apple.
AshFraxinusEps t1_j6movii wrote
Not sure who you were replying to, but I never mentioned apples :-P
United-Ad5268 t1_j6lksac wrote
Because that’s the case with the majority of plant and animal life that has existed. Extinct. No trace.
[deleted] t1_j6mk905 wrote
[deleted]
AshFraxinusEps t1_j6mm18r wrote
Doubt that. Most/all natural plants have seeds and to my knowledge this one was just a default herb-like plant, so should have some seeds
Also the fact that it was cultivated suggests that it had a normal plant lifecycle. We can make seedless fruits but not so much for herbs and such
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