Submitted by copperdomebodhi t3_ygz4vy in explainlikeimfive
In the movies, morse code comes through so fast it's hard to tell a dot from a dash. Hoe did they keep from getting lost?
Submitted by copperdomebodhi t3_ygz4vy in explainlikeimfive
In the movies, morse code comes through so fast it's hard to tell a dot from a dash. Hoe did they keep from getting lost?
Like any language, if you are not used to hearing it, it sounds like jiberish. But once you learn it, it makes sense. There is a space between the dit and da in Morse code but at speed, you need a trained ear to hear it. Once you learn code, it is more like listening to music. Some words and phrases are repeated so often that it sounds like the entire word instead of each letter.
So experienced code guys can listen at 25 or 30 words per minute as well as transmit. It just takes alot of practice. I know these kind of guys and I'm an in pure amazement of what they can do. But they use it daily.
The pauses are of different lengths. How long a pause in between the dots and dashes depends if you are in a character (letter, digit, or other symbols), between characters, and between words. So if you learn it you will be able to tell the pauses apart
The timing is includes how long the dots and dashes are themself
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https://morsecode.world/international/timing.html
You can use a website like https://www.meridianoutpost.com/resources/etools/calculators/calculator-morse-code.php? and generate the sound, it is quite clear at low speed that it is different even for a novice. It is noticeable even at high speed that pauses are not identical even if you might not there the it exactly right.
There's a bigger gap between dots and dashes in different letters. If a dot is 1 unit of time then a dash is 3. Dots and dashes in the same letter are separated by 1 unit whereas there's a 3-unit gap between letters and a 7-unit gap between words. With practice it's not hard to hear, even at relatively high speeds. You don't listen for the individual dots and dashes but instead you learn the rhythm of each letter and even common short words.
Telegraph operators practice quite a bit so they can tell the spacing between letters.
Once you learn telegraphy you can even tell who is sending the message based on their "hand," or how distinct their pattern is.
It's a skill that you get better at the more your use it.
My uncle was a Morse code operator in WWII. He told me he could send and receive at the same time.
Also during WWII there were Allied coders who could recognize the signature cadence of Nazi operators so they could tell when certain units had moved from one location to another.
Morse isn't binary (dot and dash), but turnary.
There are three characters: [dot] [dash] and [space].
This.
A family member also operated Morse around that timeframe.
He told me in comm rooms there were constant chatter of Morse code in the background from traffic meant for other stations.
Yet at times even when he was half asleep / dozing off from fatigue while on duty, his hand would automatically reach for the Morse key "clicker" and start to respond subconsciously whenever his station's "dit-dit-dah" code came on air.
I was a commercial radio operator. I qualified sending and receiving international morse at 20 words per minute.
Later, in the Military, I knew people who could receive at 60+ wpm. At those speeds you can hear whole words.
So, at the slower speeds, you have an element of time that is 1 unit. That is the length of a "dit", a "dah" is 3 units long. The space between the dits and dahs of a character is 1 unit long. The space between characters is 3 units long, or the space of a dah. As you get faster, the timing should stay the same, but what happens once you get proficient, the dits get shorter, and the dahs just become slightly longer dits, say 1.5x the length of a dit. Then you make the spaces within a character as short as possible, and shorten up the spaces between characters as well, but keep them slightly longer.
A good operator has a nice rhythm, and will work with the receiving operator up to that operator's most efficient speed. It is the rhythm that makes it all work. Think of it as like someone's speech cadence.
Also, most modern movies just have nonsense, and you don't hear the whole message because it would take too long.
dah ditditditdit ditdah dahkit ditditdit, ditditdahdit dahdahdah ditdahdit, ditdahdit dit ditdah dahditdit ditdahditdahditdah
Rhythm is a big part of Morse interpretation. From back in the WWII era, some Morse training was based on mnemonics for the letters. For example (from my Dad) with emphasis on the bold words:
F is .._. dit dit dah dit Payday to day
P is .__. dit dah dah dit The grand old bitch
and so on.
One of the openings for a general broadcast looking to make contact is CQ followed by your call sign.
C is _._. dah dit dah dit
Q is _ _._ dah dah dit dah (the inverse of F)
So CQ becomes: Can you hear me, answer my call
Which serves to show the pattern and remember the purpose of the letter combo!
And of course, the famous Beethoven's 5th Symphony opening:
V is ..._ dit dit dit dah -- V for victory! (WWII, remember?)
Most people can play Name That Song in however many notes. It's like that for Morse, and eventually whole words (the, and, or, go, etc.)
Also when you are"talking" with the same group of guys you learn how they each throw their key. Each is different like their tone of speech.
It’s based on the length of the dash. Spaces between the integers of the letter are 1 dash length (time) apart. The spaces between letters are 3 dash lengths (time) separate. The spaces between words are 7 lengths apart. Last did it years ago but that’s what I recall
My father in law was also a Morse code operator in WWII in Alaska and he listened to the Japanese transmissions. He said they would change the code mid stream so all of a sudden you had no idea what you were listening too.
Is Morse still in use?
This is so cool!
I honestly do not understand this at all. Can you explain how these mnemonic devices work? For example: hot does “payday to day” hemp you remember that F is dit dit dah dit??
I think it's just easier to link a letter to a phrase instead of a rhythm, even if they aren't related.
The bold letters are the DAH, the un-bold letters are the DIT. As for the word "answer", you have to dah for both syllables.
Probably mainly just HAM radio hobbyists.
Wartime intellegence included learning the "hand" of various operaters to trace movements, to distinguish false transmissions, and to try to fake transmissions.
I got downvoted even though they said they know folks who use it daily. Reddit is weird.
On the radio, how many songs can you recognize from just hearing the opening few seconds? It's like that. Some people can latch on to a phrase faster than just the dit dah sounds. If it works for you, it works.
How true.
Yes. Often used in emergency situations and by US a mature radio operators (HAMs). It is required for most of their radio operator licenses. It can be transmitted better than voice - less power and through more interference. Some even bounce signals off the moon and reach others in states. Many reach every state. Hawaii and Alaska are the hardest for those not located in those states.
Military folks use similar communications sometimes, I would guess.
Cool. Thanks!
One notes that if one “misses” the end of the word, one can often work out what was meant, just as if one misses aspace in typing, as I just did.
This is similar to the Japanese and Chinese style writing where each “character” is made up of different sub parts.
Who still uses it daily? Is it in certain industries still? I've had a few courses on it over the years but SOS is about all I can do was always interesting as hell to me.
Thanks !
Morse code is no longer required for a US amateur license, nor for a marine radio operator license. That only happened in the last 20 years or so.
>thans for read.-.-.-
Somehow, reading this has planted, "Shave and a haircut...Two Bits!" firmly into my brain!
What happens if you make an error in the sequence? Like is there a code to send to "backspace" or restart the letter/ word?
Honest question, who is still using Morse code and in what capacity?
Theoretically it's even more than that. As several people have explained the timing of the [space] is important as well.
So there is [On Short] for dot, [Off Short] for spacing within a character, [On Long] for dash, [Off Long] for spacing between characters, and lastly [Off extra long] for spacing between words.
The longest character in Morse code (which includes numbers and punctuation) is only 6 "characters" Long. For example 5 dots in a row is the number 5. 5 dashes in a row is the number zero.
Punctuation is typically 6 "characters" of dots/dashes. For example ? = . . - - . . But there is no official Punctuation for 6 dots in a row or 6 dashes in a row.
A mistake is typically indicated by a series of 6 or more dots in a row.
"Shorthand" in code is huge and can greatly increase word count and comprehension with practice. Think of it like all the acronyms that people use while texting sometimes. Same thing happens in Morse code. For example DE in code means "this is" as in introducing or announcing who you are. WX = weather. HIHI is laughter because it rhythmically sounds like it. 88=XOXO (hugs and kisses). 73=thanks for the chat.
You may be right. When I last checked, years ago, it was no longer required for the most basic license. The internet says no longer required, abut works better than voice in difficult conditions. Thanks for the correct, current information.
I worked with an experienced coder who had a hard time with me because I was sending letters while he worked with whole words. It’s a whole different mind set for sure.
I'm no expert on Morse code, and several others have given far more detailed information than I can, but I will add that from watching a British reality show in which contestants were put through Ww2 SOE (counterintelligence/espionage/sabotage) training, one of the tasks was learn how to transmit and receive Morse code messages. The show mentioned that mistakes were pretty common, but could usually be corrected via common sense. Just like in modern day texting conversations, missing he "t" in "the" is usually a pretty simple and easy to override mistake.
Former submarine sonar operator on youtube is always talking about when they were following a target around, they eventually learned the differences between the drivers and such on each watch just by the differences in sound they'd hear.
It's amazing the amount of information trained people can glean out of enough noise.
Just wanted to add that I grew up across the street from a WW2 vet who still used Morse code into the 90's. He would communicate with people all over the world. From how he described it, it was sort of like random connections but you could also dial up buddies.
There was, probably still is, some government agency monitoring those communications. Every time he spoke with someone he'd get a post card in the mail several days later listing the address and the length of the conversation.
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Hey, thats super interesting! I have another question if you don’t mind. How would people be able to correct a mistake if they made one while using morse code? Would they Pause and start before the mistake and the listener would have to use context to make sense of it? And you know people using it daily as in their hobby or profession and if so what profession still uses morse code? Military?
How does the sender figure out the receiver's top efficient speed? Is there some sort of "hey slow down" or "go faster if able" code (formal or informal)?
Not sure about Morse code, but early teletype terminals had special characters that would act as "backspace a symbol" or "backspace a word". I imagine it's the same thing.
Now, imagine what a computer can do. Provided that they have enough text, they can be pretty sure that you and that other person on another site is pretty much the same one, just by the style and typo you make.
What is the show called?
Yeah, but can they see why kids love the taste of Cinnamon Toast Crunch?
>"Shorthand" in code is huge
But that how you get 3 morons almost killed by El Guapo because they think infamous means more than famous, that is "in famous".
No, it's ternary. How many silences you use doesn't make it have a larger alphabet. It has three letters.
There was a test website that authenticated you based on the way you type your username and password. It appears to be offline though.
I imagined it. Now what?
Wait… what? I’m studying for my Technician license right now and it’s still in the guidebook supposedly last updated in 2020.
> How would people be able to correct a mistake if they made one while using morse code?
........ (that's eight) is used to mean "error", and then just send the correct text.
Thank you for this, I learned something today
The Belgian HAM license now has a an extra symbol on the license when you passed the morse-exam. But it's not it doesn't change the callsign...
If you think of Morse that way, the you can call a 'dash' two 'dots' in a row and make it binary again.
The technician licence hasn't required morse since 1990. There was an option to get limited HF access with a morse test, but if you just wanted 50 MHz and up, you could skip it.
I was in the last course in the British army to learn morse code. As a signaller, I had to pass a test at 8wpm (nothing by cold war standards, but pretty hard work for a beginner).
I spent 6 months listening to cassettes and practicing (and eventually passing the test) in the certain knowledge that I would never ever use Morse anywhere as the army had stopped using it. My own little Yossarian moment.
Used in IR signal flashes in my personal experience, very useful low tech IFF.
Also, as a pilot in East UK where there are (were?) Lots of airfields, a flashing ident beacon you could see from 10k out made it easier not to land at the wrong runway...
QRS to slow down, QRQ to speed up.
Would you please translate the image of the invisible by thrice? The first 15 seconds or so are Morse. I want to use this as a template to break down exactly what you're explaining for a litany of other Morse amongst. Thanks in advance.
Edit: image*
>so fast it's hard to tell
That's actually part of what makes it work so well. An experienced operator won't think in dots and dashes, just like you don't think of individual lines but whole letters when reading a written text.
It's called the "fist" not the hand. Source I still use Morse Code as a Ham Radio Operator.
It's binary - sound or silence.
If different-length silences are all the same character, so are different-length sounds.
You could say it has 5 characters (dot, dash, 3 different blanks) or 2, but 3 doesn't make any sense.
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I guess with practice they learnt to do it naturally, like listening to speech. When we listen to someone talk, we can distinguish between syllables within a word or in separate words.
Edit: usually. I have poor hearing and I just realised that part of the problem is words blending into each other.
Inalmostallcasesitispossibletoreadwithoutbreaks. Not very convenient but I think operators would get used to. So why did they not skip it? Or is it not time critical?
I guess I am thinking from the modern Era perspective where we are trying to compress data/time to send as much as possible
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You can call anything anything else, but that doesn't make it so. A dotdot is not valid morse code.
The issue isn't deciphering where the words end, but which letters are being used. Etsborlaekdascas,wyshishedr. Yes, an experienced operator can guess from the context, but it will slow things down.
This is not true.
Then the character breaking words, SpaceSpace, isn't valid either and is a separate character to the single space, and Space^7 is also a separate character for the word break, making Morse code a 5 character language.
>Who still uses it daily?
Amateur radio operators around the world. I know plenty of guys who never talk on the radio but do code daily. It's just a preference.
>Honest question, who is still using Morse code and in what capacity?
Amateur radio operators. They use it in conversations and passing information on daily nets. You can tune around the spectrum and hear it 24hrs a day.
You can name all combinations and then it's a regular 27 character language. That doesn't make it so, that's an abstraction. Every language can be deconstructed into binary, but Morse has an obvious ternary system that is closest to its actual usage.
Dot dot is not valid. Dot space dot IS valid. Space is not valid. Seven space is valid. Do you need me to draw up the formal language rules?
American Morse code is more complicated as it has two lengths of dashes and two lengths of inside a character spacing https://imgur.com/0MIkiUh.jpg
Do mid 20th century British writers use the same word?
According to Wikipedia, it’s the name of the album (Vheissu) done by singer Dustin Kensrue.
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Thank you. So the dot/dash is just a translation of 'VHEISSU' ??? That opens up so many new avenues to that album and it's followup, Alchemy Index
Are they differennt from:
Dot - length 1.
Dash - length 2 (so could be considered 2 dots together).
Space between dots/dashes - length 1
Space between letters - length 3 (so could be considered 3 spaces together)
Space between words - length 7 (so could be considered 7 spaces together)
If you recognise the dot and dash as 2 different things, then should you not also recognise the different length spacings as well?
If you were considering Morse as a computer encoding, you'd recognise 4 symbols - Dot-space, or 'high-low', for a dot, Dash-space (High-high-low) for a dash, 'low-low' (following the 2 above with a trailing space) for a letter delimiter, and 6 spaces for a word delimiter. But we'd still call this a binary encoding.
The thing with morse is that there's gaps between each letter and if you can't tell where those are you are screwed because:
.- is A . is E
Who is still using it daily?
Because you don’t hear the individual dots and dashes. After a while, you hear them combining into words. That’s how I learned it. It starts to sound like a monotone song.
Source: me. I used to be able to send and receive upwards of 20 words per minute. That was many years ago, and I’ve lost a good bit of it. But if I hear a snip go by in a movie or something, the words still jump out.
At one point it was normal to have no spaces or punctuation between written words.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scriptio_continua
It’s interesting to think about spacing and punctuation as a technology.
>Who is still using it daily?
And you also have Field Day operators
And various CW nets around the bands daily. Here is one example.
Code is alive and well. The guys who are fluent are awesome at it and it is amazing to watch.
Interesting thank you
My dad sent and received Morse Code for the Air Force back in the 60s. He'll still hear random beeps and hear letters/words/phrases out of them. It's definitely like hearing a second language he says.
I don't know. But I've been a Ham since I was a kid in 1982 and I know many hams that were licensed in the early 60's. I've always heard it was someone's "fist" that was unique. However most operators since the early 80's use what is known as a "keyer" and a set of paddles. One paddle make the dit (dot) and the other makes the Dah (dash). The keyer makes perfect spacing for each letter and therefore makes you sound less unique but better and easier to copy. Also using an electronic keyer allows you to send much faster (>60wpm in some cases) than a straight key like you see in old movies.
In all seriousness, there is code in the air 24/7. Some guys just prefer it. When it comes to contesting, they can talk to way more people in bad conditions than you can with voice. It's an art form that it really amazing. If you want to see it first hand, the easiest time is during ARRL Field Day. Look it up and find a station near you to observe.
Your formatting is off
- is T
>!use a \ to “cancel” the formatting Reddit uses. \ - makes a dash!<
Everyone else has answered your specific questions, but if you want to go deeper into the social conventions and culture that early Morse coders developed among themselves, there is a fascinating book, The Victorian Internet, which delves into those. It's about 20 years old, so it predates "Web 2.0", and social media, but it points out many fascinating parallels between Morse operators and early-internet chat rooms.
The gist is that between messages operators would talk amongst themselves, gossiping and becoming long-distance friends. People gained status by transmitting and receiving faster, or by doing so with especial elegance. They invented lots of private acronyms, and conventions to express personal messages, and sub-textual feelings. Romances developed across the wires. It was a whole, shared, nerdy, long-distance world, the first to exist.
Anyway, read the book. I'm sure you'll enjoy it.
This is fascinating. To think you could hear some beeps and automatically come to the conclusion, “that sounds like so-and-so”. Technology is completely fascinating. Even old technology.
Swedish army telegraph training also used mnemonics like that, but with the added bonus that the first letter of the mnemonic was the letter it represented.
This would be a good r/writingprompt idea. A person who hears and learns world secret through electronic beeps everywhere. Highly sought after by the MI6 and the CIA for his rare ability. LoL
My mother worked in a radio station listening to Morse transmissions during the cold war. She is fluent in hearing and transcribing Morse code, but only going from Morse to letters/numbers, she can't go the other way.
Apparently radio operators could identify different people by their “accents”.
Morse code is full of acronyms and idioms. The sound of these are recognized as whole words.
Yep, it’s called a fist. In the r/AmateurRadio world we still use Morse code sometimes and I can usually identify someone based on their fist before they’ve fully identified themselves if it’s someone I talk to a lot.
The thing that i haven't seen anyone mention is that don't ever go by what you see in movies. If they are doing something not many people understand, for example Morse code, they will do the bare minimum to make it understood what they are doing. They will put zero effort into making it technically accurate.
Thanks!
Churchill's secret agents, the new recruits.
It is so interesting what we have idiosyncrasies in. I remember playing soccer growing up and when i arrived at practice i could tell from the parking lot who was here from a distance awqy because i could recognize people's walks and runs before being close enough to make out their faces.
It's fascinating that that would even come across in the tiny, highly constrained motion of just tapping out code.
Yup. If you look at a sound pattern of a native speaker speaking you can't usually tell the breaks between words. It is something of a continuous wave pattern. Our brain is doing the hard work of parsing into words.
MY ex FIL was a ham radio guy. In all the years he was on he never used voice always key.. Had his own little spot for his radios was always on at the same times to talk with his group of friends.
Sorry, can I ask a sub-question that I think you can answer.
How did operator 'A' know the speed operator 'B' could read/understand?
I mean, by your example if one guy is firing 60 words a minute, how does he know he wasn't talking to 20 words per minute guy?
Ho about new guys? Were they all expected to understand 60 words per minute? If not... How would they tell the sender to slow down?
That's interesting. Have you got a link to that youtuber?
Crazy. It’d drive me insane not hearing voices
Was just watching The Hunt For Red October and was wondering the same thing. Thanks for asking!
It shows up as a dash to me without backslash?
Well here's an example: analbumcover. What is it?
My question is, what if the receiver misses the first few dots and dashes for some reason or they're transmitted before he could start writing , how does he find out the first few letters or words?
If you’re using the 2020 book it’s out of date. The questions were updated in July 22.
One of Humanities greatest gifts that set us apart from animals, is the magnitude of our pattern recognition
🤣 I am sure I remember alan davis and stephen fry doing a bit on QI due to analbumcover
I'll take The rapists for $600
That's awesome, my entire life I thought it was a dead/dying skill set; had no idea it was still in common use. Thank you!
Same for my grandpa. He was a radio operator in WW2 as a very young man. One year in the 90s we got Walkie-Talkies for Christmas and he fired off a full paragraph of text.
Games, most likely place to hear stories: https://youtu.be/wamj3no5oFY
Naval news/history of submarines: https://youtu.be/24uLeEKma5g
Aviation still uses morse heavily in ground based navigation (VOR/NDB) identifiers.
Gets more interesting if you know Vheissu is the name of a lost continent in Thomas Pynchon's book V.
I did not but ill definitely be ordering it now
From what I’ve seen/heard so far, most folks if they don’t know the party on the other end will start fairly slow, and each response will be a little faster than the previous until one party or the other stops accelerating, or there is interference and they have to request a retransmission. But if they know each other, they’ll just start at whatever speed they are mutually comfortable at.
There are also a whole pile of three letter shorthands called Q-Codes. They act as meta or control instructions, and speed adjustments are one of the universal uses. They function in both a question and statement mode, and often have madlibs style fill in the blanks. Eg:
QRQ? Shall I go faster? QRQ40 Go faster, up to 40 words per minute.
QRS20 Go Slower, 20 words per minute max
QOD12? Can you communicate in English or French? QOD073 I can communicate in Dutch, Norwegian, or German.
QRE KRST? What is your estimated time of arrival at/over KRST? QRE KRST 0945 I will arrive at/over Rochester Intl. Airport at 9:45a UTC
There’s a pretty thorough list in Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q_code
Except for corvids and elephants
You would just ask them to repeat the message, or to repeat the beginning of the message.
Perhaps the person who sent the message is gone, so you just write down what you have, and make the best of it.
Then what’s true? Do you just like telling someone they’re wrong?
I find Reddit is often a terrible forum. Forums are for discussion or sharing ideas and information. When you’re the kid in the class or person in the audience who just wants to feel right by simply calling someone wrong rather than contributing your own answer, know you’re the problem and the reason why Reddit is a poor forum for ideas and information.
I’m perfectly fine with being wrong btw. 🙂 I don’t use Reddit to fluff up my (fragile) ego.
arg, forgot the K! lol (dahditdah)
Yes, pretty much. If you are on a duplex circuit, the receiver will throw a "dah" for each word received, and if they missed something in that word, will throw a "ditdit", and the sender will resend the last word.
When you are doing this style, you can quickly figure out how fast the other guy is.
absolutely, if I was on a duplex circuit (two freqs) the receiver would send a dah, for every word received correctly, and if he wanted it resent, then send a ditdit.
People are lazy, so didn't really have to use Q codes in that situation, you just increased your send speed until either you weren't comfortable, or the receiver started asking for lots of repeats.
Alex Trebek: Yeah, it was a trick question, Mr. Connery. Why don’t you pick a category?
Sean Connery: I’ve got to ask you about the Penis Mightier.
Alex Trebek: What? No. No, no, that is The Pen is Mightier.
It's still pretty pervasive in the marine industry, however most of the time the letters don't matter so much as what they mean. I've forgotten half of the alphabet, and definitely couldn't translate a sentence from the flashing light the way I was trained to, but I encounter at least one of the various single letter codes just about every day on the water.
Racons (radar beacons) transmit an identifying letter that appears on our radar, letting us visually identify important points of land. For example I can easily distinguish the entrance to the Fraser River from the sandflats at Robert's Bank because they have different letters.
Flashing morse A lights are used on fairway buoys to mark safe water.
Flashing morse U lights are used on oil rigs to signal a danger.
Morse O is the emergency signal for a man overboard. Every crew member knows where to go and what to do immediately upon hearing that signal.
Different morse sound signals can be used to indicate you're turning to port, starboard, overtaking a vessel, moving astern, or concerned about what the other vessel is doing - given the prevalence of radios only the last two seem to be used regularly, but if someone wasn't responding on radio it gives me a way of letting the other ship know what I'm about to do.
Similarly, others are used as fog signals to indicate what type of vessel you are and what your status is (for example I can tell a normal power driven vessel from a tugboat or vessel restricted in its ability to manoeuver).
And as the aviation guy mentioned, we've got some aviation electronics on board transmits our identification code when we're doing helicopter operations as a backup to help them find us.
This is just another language that you learn. The dots and dashes are part of it. They are the voices that you hear. Do you text? You don't hear a voice then Just the one in you head as you read it.
Enjoy! It can be a dense read but it's worth effort.
Yeah, if I could learn another language. 🤣
MountainHigh31 t1_iub8a7n wrote
Honestly they just practiced and got incredibly good at it. It was a valuable skill to develop but it had to be tough to learn and get good at.