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havereddit OP t1_je3lngw wrote

Reply to comment by DarkAlman in ELI5: Everyone knows that Ticketmaster is the biggest scumbucket enterprise on the planet yet no band seems able to avoid their grasp. What's to stop a really major act (e.g. Taylor Swift) from performing in venues that are not controlled by Ticketmaster, or just setting up a parallel company? by havereddit

Could really big acts enact a vendetta against Ticketmaster, and insist on playing (for example) in nothing but outdoor, Woodstock-like venues? Or contracting big but atypical venues (e.g. University football stadiums) instead?

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dariasniece t1_je3mqii wrote

They could, but doing so would also cause a lot of headaches and lost revenue for them too. It's also worth pointing out that the last time there was a Woodstock, people died of heat stroke and rioted over a lack of bathrooms

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illbeyourdrunkle t1_je3o7o6 wrote

Also the people killed when the wind picked up the stage and crashed it into the crowd, or the people crushed in a crowd crush/stampede. Lots of examples lately.

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big_troublemaker t1_je428ns wrote

There some examples of accidents, but also thousands of festivals without any. Not to mention that similarly there's plenty of accidents in closed venues. Call me crazy but It's almost as if there was a general rule: large gathering of people, electricity, equipment, temporary structures equal heightened risk of accident.

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big_troublemaker t1_je421fk wrote

You surely are aware that there are hundreds of large scale open air music festivals happening every year all around the world which don't end with people dying of heat stroke or lack of facilities?

Woodstock was a shitshow in that respect because it was planned for 50k and 400k attended.

Nowadays there are festivals with over half a million attendees that happen on annual basis. I believe the tomorrowland comes close to 600 000 attendees.

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EnChilladada t1_je437d4 wrote

Yeah, and guess who the ticket partner for Tomorrowland is?

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TwinkForAHairyBear t1_je45akk wrote

I'd like to introduce you to Pol'and'rock Festival. No ticket, no master, no ticketmaster. Even though it's a huge event they manage to keep it free of charge and that's just unbelievably amazing.

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EvilBosch t1_je43yj6 wrote

>I believe the tomorrowland comes close to 600 000 attendees.

That sounds absolutely bloody awful.

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KrazzeeKane t1_je45oiy wrote

Good god the stench past the first day or two must be so horrifically strong you can practically see it, like that SpongeBob episode where he eats the nasty sandwich and gets the rancid breath

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big_troublemaker t1_je47kji wrote

Not sure why? Ever heard of showers, wcs, etc? I addmitedly attend smaller festivals (tens of thousands not hundreds) but they are just so plush... High quality food, great music, open air, people. And at night I go to sleep in my hotel to come back fresh and relaxed next morning.

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KrazzeeKane t1_je5us67 wrote

I'm talking about the big multi-day festivals, which this would qualify as since it is 600k+ people lol. And those get real stinky, real fast when you have hundreds of thousands of people who have been physically active and dancing all crowd together outside. You can physically feel it lol

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2CHINZZZ t1_je46nu5 wrote

And Ticketmaster runs a lot of those. ACL, the various Lollapaloozas, and some other festivals are produced by C3 Presents, which Live Nation, the parent company of Ticketmaster, owns a 51% stake in

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big_troublemaker t1_je478fy wrote

Sure, they obviously want to - there's money in festivals - but that's not the point, previous poster made it look as if there were no open air festivals due to poor organisation of one that has happened many decades ago.

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Jassida t1_je3zmil wrote

There have been lots of successful outdoor concerts since though

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joelluber t1_je3tgiw wrote

>University football stadiums

I saw the Stones at a university football stadium. Tickets by Ticketmaster. I saw McCartney at a different university football stadium. Tickets by Ticketmaster. I saw Roger Waters at a college basketball arena. Tickets by Ticketmaster.

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subsonicmonkey t1_je3zadc wrote

Yup. They’ve got just about all of the major league and university arenas and stadiums in the country.

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WeDriftEternal t1_je3oy3x wrote

You're missing a big part. Most acts go with ticketmaster because they make more money with them, than any alternative, especially for big acts, particularly big acts.

Ticketmaster takes the hit and shit, and the artist appears clean, but anyone who knows the business is laughing because the artist specifically is doing it to make more money and just pretending otherwise. Robert Smith of the Cure though is fucking pissed, they lied to him it appears

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AlanMorlock t1_je3pkzj wrote

Which venues would you suppose they play? Stadium-filling acts playing in Evenbrite clubs in Wichitaw isn't going to do anything to make tickets more accessible.

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WeDriftEternal t1_je3q9fe wrote

There's not necessarily a good alternative, but thats not really whats at the heart of the situation here, it more has to do with how the deals are made and big time artists juice their deals and ticketmaster eats the shit for it. Not that ticketmaster isn't a piece of shit and scam, they are, but the artists are not innocent, nor are they ignorant of whats happening, either, they are happily complicent (again except Robert Smith)

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AlanMorlock t1_je3rs66 wrote

None of which would work if they hadn't been allowed to vertically integrate and take over the ticketing for essentially every venue over a certain size. There's not another game in town.

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WeDriftEternal t1_je3tk3g wrote

This was all working just as it is now even before the Live Nation merger. The merger didn't help the situation, but its not like it was any different before, because it wasn't.

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remarkablemayonaise t1_je3y0fo wrote

Don't you guys have a competition commission to "anti trust" these mergers?

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AlanMorlock t1_je4qm7o wrote

Functionally? Not really. Sometimes they feint at regulations but it's been a rubber stamp for most industries.

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WeDriftEternal t1_je3y4ra wrote

This probably should have had conditions attached. I haven’t reviewed the case though.

Lots of times vertical integration is allowed easily though (for complex business reasons)

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Arianity t1_je3qa5t wrote

>Could really big acts enact a vendetta against Ticketmaster, and insist on playing (for example) in nothing but outdoor, Woodstock-like venues?

Groups like Pearljam have tried exactly that, and failed. And it really hurt the band's career. You would need many acts to work together (and also do so in a way that doesn't fall under anti-trust action of their own). That sort of collective action is very difficult, especially given the potential risk that it fails, or retaliation from Ticketmaster.

Ticketmaster has something like an ~85% market share. They're really, really big.

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exstaticj t1_je3z4v7 wrote

How did it hurt their career? Those guys love small venues. Eddie and his wife played behind a sheet at Satyricon just to feel connected. Jeff had a 3 fish show on the second floor of some random building. It was lit by candles and like 100 fans sat crosslegged in a small candle lit room. This was around the time of either vs or Virology, I can't remember.

No, it didn't hurt their career, it hurt their fans access to them. They had achieved more fame and money than they would have ever imagined. They just cared about their fans.

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Djinn42 t1_je3mv6e wrote

Yes they could. But who would pay to advertise this unusual venue? And who would pay to create a new method of making tickets? And who would pay to have the vendors, food, drink, bathrooms, security, etc? Yes, some of these venues already have some of these services - but for the level of Taylor Swift?

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jellicenthero t1_je3q8ii wrote

You would have to privately negotiate each and every venue as well as organizing permits etc. Sign the line with Ticketmaster and you have a world tour lined up in a week.

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Uruz2012gotdeleted t1_je41isz wrote

Eventbrite and other ticketing companies own those places too. They form an oligopoly with Ticketmaster by also charging bullshit fees. Since the ticketing companies own all the venues aside from campgrounds that host a few thousand people, you're SOL if you want to sell 10k tickets.

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goodmobileyes t1_je445de wrote

To what end? Do you think most of them really care about how much their fans pay? This problem has been going on for years but singers and bands have been perfectly content to keep going on tour knowing that their fans are being bled dry at every show.

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MurderDoneRight t1_je457dr wrote

On the height of their popularity Pearl Jam tried this, they even brought it to congress, and failed. Setting up your own venues costs a lot, most festivals loses money. They have exclusivity deals with all these venues too, that includes stadiums and other sport venues.

It's a shit show and everyone knows it, but everyone involved is making money so...

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Sourceles t1_je5gmza wrote

Ticketmaster cuts venues out of their circuit if they organize an event without them.

So, from the venues standpoint going rebel is a massive risk. What if the rebellion doesn't succeed? They're basically a venue with almost the entire market blocked off from them by Ticketmaster.

I wouldn't be surprised if they have a similar thing going with the artists themselves.

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