The effect of the First World War on names, in France [OC]Submitted by bjco t3_ysedll in dataisbeautiful
BRUISE_WILLIS t1_iw0h0m7 wrote
Pardon ignorance: forename = first name?
polytique t1_iw0sktc wrote
Yes, translation of "premier prénom" in French: so cases where the father's first name becomes the son's first name.
v4nguardian t1_iw1owys wrote
“Premier prénom” is redundant as “prénom” itself is “first name”, “nom” or “nom de famille” being the last name
GFL07 t1_iw1q2uq wrote
"premier prénom" is not redundant as you can have multiple "prénoms". Your second name is your "deuxième prénom" and your third name is your "troisième prénom" etc. With your last name usually being one or two family names.
Tokipudi t1_iw1z2um wrote
Yes, but not a single french person will ask you your "Premier prénom".
When asking for someone's first name you simply ask what is the person's "prénom", and if you want to ask about if they have a second or third name then you simply ask about what their "second name" is or if they have other "prénoms".
But this is not asked often at all, as 2nd and 3rd names are only ever used in an administrative kind of way and never used to actually talk to someone.
GFL07 t1_iw23klb wrote
Yes but here the precision is important because the data is specifically on the "premier prénom".
Tokipudi t1_iw27o8g wrote
And my point is that, unless stated otherwise, "Prénom" means "Premier prénom".
Evepaul t1_iw2c6sw wrote
To quote OP, the author of the paper, in French:
"Entre 1905 et le 1er août 1914, mois après mois, semaine après semaine, 12% des garçons environ reçoivent en premier prénom le premier prénom de leur père. [...] Mais dès la semaine du 3 août 1914, après la déclaration de guerre et la mobilisation générale du 1er août 1914, le taux de transmission passe à 17 ou 18%."
The same thing said with "prénom" instead of "premier prénom" could just as well mean that boys would have their father's first name as a second name. Both are prénoms. Or even their father's second name as a second name. Or any combination of prénoms (I have my father's second name "Marie" as my third).
97875 t1_iw2dqaj wrote
But I can't read French!
Tokipudi t1_iw3f5f7 wrote
No.
The same thing said with "Prénom" would be interpreted as "Premier prénom" by default.
As I said, "Prénom" always means "Premier prénom" unless stated otherwise.
GFL07 t1_iw4mxlo wrote
No, your "prénom" is your "prénom usuel" witch can be chosen between any of your "prénoms". It's the "prénom" you use in everyday life et nothing force it to be your "premier prénom ". It usually is the "premier prénom" but a lot of people uses one of their other "prénom".
Tokipudi t1_iw4q8pd wrote
Technically right, but completely wrong when it comes to actual real life use.
I have never encountered a single French person who uses anything but their first name as their "Prénom usuel".
Once again, these terms are only use in an administrative way and are (almost) never used in any other context.
GFL07 t1_iw4ssth wrote
> I have never encountered a single French person who uses anything but their first name as their "Prénom usuel".
Most people who chooses to not use their first name as their "prénom usuel" wouldn't disclose to people their aren't close with that they don't use their first name.
You wouldn't know unless they told you their full name. Witch, let's be honest, rarely happens outside of administrative work.
It's totally possible that you encountered multiple peoples using a "prénom usuel" witch is not their first name without knowing it wasn't their first name.
mcSibiss t1_iw361pk wrote
People in France have multiple first names?
My first language is French but I’m not French. We don’t usually have multiple first names, although we have three first names on our baptismal certificate, Joseph, our Godfather’s name and our own.
I have never heard anyone say premier prénom nor seen it written.
GFL07 t1_iw37gyf wrote
Not everyone but a lot of people have multiple "firstnames". It depends on family traditions etc. I personally have 3 names before my family name. My sister have 4.
Our parents gave us our names to honor people from the family. My second name is the firstname of my great grandfather and my third name is the firstname of one of my great uncles who died shortly before my birth.
monedula t1_iw1q2rv wrote
You can have more than one forename.
PleasureComplex t1_iw334jb wrote
Reddit try not to be a pedant challenge
gogetenks123 t1_iw1pcji wrote
French is extremely fun because of this. I absolutely enjoy filling forms that start with “Nom” (name) with my first or even my full name only for the next form item to be “Prénom” (first name).
Totally doesn’t happen every single time no sir.
Stahlios t1_iw1xwzh wrote
Me, a French that has lived in France his whole life, messing up everytime too
BeerMeAlready t1_iw1z7yx wrote
Same in germany. I hate this. I also sometimes just fill in the last name, just to realize it's just one "Name" field and I was supposed to put the full name (first and last)
eklatea t1_iw2s6b5 wrote
it's not like we have a word that makes it clear that it's the last name. That'd be ridiculous
[deleted] t1_iw0jy4b wrote
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DreadPirateLink t1_iw22enz wrote
Never heard it before, but I like it!
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