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XPlutonium t1_ixyzpd2 wrote

Reply to comment by Ikkon in Charted: Income Distributions in 16 Different Countries by TheThinker12

Income and wealth are different

Consider Netherlands. Probably the lowest Gini income but also highest Gini Wealth.

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Bull_City t1_ixz0lpq wrote

I’ve found this interesting after living overseas. The US has some of the highest average incomes, like our top 20% make gobs compared to other developed places. This chart shows that.

But like you said, if you look at wealth numbers (I’d argue the much more important number) the US is woeful for how much money is made. It’s like a revolving door of spending with the wealth accumulated very very unevenly. I lived in NZ where the average incomes are much lower than the US but the median net worth of a Kiwi is double that of the US. (Google both and adjust for exchange). What was crazy is how much you can see it walking around everyday. Or Norway, where the average person there has a network of nearly $300k thanks for the sovereign wealth fund.

Idk I feel like the US prides itself in our high incomes when we should be maximizing national wealth distribution.

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Ikkon t1_ixz4n7y wrote

I’m not sure if looking at wealth is that good of a way of judging prosperity of a country and wellbeing of its citizens.

When looking just at median wealth, people in Portugal are wealthier than people in Germany, and Germany and Greece are about equal. Sweden, Ireland and the US are all very low, and average person in Norway is poorer than people in the UK or France.

I think average wealth can get pretty distorted by things like house value, since places that rank as the wealthiest usually also have really overvalued housing market

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Bull_City t1_ixzdr5y wrote

That’s a fair point. It’s prolly a mix of each tbh, like wealth and income to your point.

But I’d recommend visiting some of these other countries I mentioned if you haven’t. In the US the disparity in both income/wealth is crazy whichever you want to use.

Like your average Norwegian or Kiwi is much happier than your average American on most any happiness measure. You can just see the prosperity walking around compared to the US where you’ll see a Ferrari roar past a homeless tent. That shit just doesn’t happen in most countries we’d consider our peers in either wealth or income.

So I know wealth distribution has become a highly propagandized word in the US, but figuring out a way to at least get basic services to everyone would go a long way, whether taxing and providing services or figuring a way to get wealth sloshing around more evenly.

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[deleted] t1_ixz2lu0 wrote

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Bull_City t1_ixzeet7 wrote

Totally agreed. After living in New Zealand it was eye opening to see all the things I was told could never work like higher minimum wage, universal healthcare, lots of paternity leave, lots of time off, high worker rights, etc because communism never works. It does, like it’s not perfect, but the homeless in New Zealand still look more prosperous than the US working class which is kinda fucked because most Americans consider themselves the richest country on earth even if they are on the low end here.

It has made me really jaded coming back to the US. Like it does work, just people here have been beaten down by Cold War propaganda to the point it’s the national narrative/culture or something. Idk, I’m emigrating this year because of it. Moved back to be close to family, but I cant get over seeing how fucked it is everyday and being told I’m the asshole for thinking we should tax people so they can afford a less luxury car so the homeless guy can get some mental health services.

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40for60 t1_iy0jvcq wrote

New Zealand and other OECD aren't taxing rich people more for the social programs, instead they have higher regressive consumption taxes (sales tax) that affects the lower income people more. New Zealand's population is 5 million and they don't have borders like we do with Mexico. Being a warm island, gated community, which is dependent on the rest of the world for just about everything has its advantages, why can't everywhere be just like NZ?

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Bull_City t1_iy0vbga wrote

You clearly have never been to NZ lol it ain’t warm. And its much less expensive/complex to immigrate to NZ than to the US based on my experience. Especially if you are skilled. The US is extremely gate keepy (we built a fucking wall and check what it takes to immigrate as a skilled worker). And fine, tax people for services they need instead of giving them extra money to buy a luxury vehicle. In the US is cheaper to buy a luxury car than a place like NZ, but health insurance is $120/year for a non-citizen, free for citizens. So fine tax everyone more. They still get shit most Americans scrounge for.

But whatever man, I don’t honestly care about what excuses the US has for itself. Plenty of other countries with land borders have strong social safety nets and less inequality. NZ is just my experience. My brother lives in Germany and has had the same experience, he ain’t coming back. I’ve traveled to and met plenty of people from other OECD countries and everywhere I look they aren’t perfect, but closer than the US in terms of taking care of their citizens. They certainly aren’t jumping at the bits to immigrate.

But no need to worry, I’ll say you’re right. No way we can have good safety nets and have to have this level of inequality for all the reasons you’re talking about. All the more reason I am happy to be leaving it.

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40for60 t1_iy0zjk4 wrote

"It’s much less expensive/complex to immigrate to NZ than to the US based on my experience. Especially if you are skilled." This is because they have a problem keeping their population up and have a immigration system in place to prioritize English speaking people with skills. The US doesn't have these discriminatory policies and doesn't have a problem attracting people or keeping them. As far as the "USA" goes people really should be looking at states because each state has their own polices just like each OECD country does. Could the US make a very discriminatory immigration policies and keep non white people out, sure (this is what Trump wanted to do), could the US jack up the sales taxes on the poor just to give them the same health care as they do through Medicaid, sure, would the VOTERS(we) vote for these, no. Also NZ doesn't need to spend money on defense or be engaged in the worlds politics, NZ is a like a gated community who can ignore all the worlds issues, something the US has chosen not to do. Comparing the two is ridicules. BTW Germany tried to pull this and their policies are now causing chaos in Europe.

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ninjewz t1_iy0iz67 wrote

The US is just really inefficient with how our income is utilized. According to this chart I'm around the 90% mark as a sole income earner (my wife doesn't work due to medical issues) and I don't feel very secure. If I was by myself I'd be okay but adding all her expenses really sucks up a majority of what would be my expendable income.

A lot of it really comes down to having no (or unreliable) safety nets. If she was at least getting SSDI that she should be getting then we would be in a much more comfortable position but instead I'm footing the bill for our crappy system.

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