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Humoer t1_iul969o wrote

I do think that's very interesting as it shows, i believe, the normalization of vegetarianism and its loss of function as a group defining characteristic/signal to outsiders.

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FuehrerStoleMyBike t1_ium3bhv wrote

thank you for not missing the point like half of this comment section.

I agree that its a very interesting graph and I agree with your assumption.

I think the main issue is that there is a part of vegan movement that is very exclusive (like people only wanting to date other vegans, only live in shared flat with vegans etc.). So there is an increased need to recognize each other.

As a vegetarian youd probably get attacked form both sides - the hard core meat-eaters asking why you are condeming their lifestyle and the hard core vegans wondering why you dont pull through. So you dont really gain anything from that except possible backlash.

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wetcalzones t1_iumq77f wrote

Not even a vegetarian, but I've been attacked for even suggesting that we maybe should just eat less meat as a proportion of our diet. People are lame.

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XxhumanguineapigxX t1_iumuio7 wrote

My university lecturer called something similar an "environmental diet" and it swayed most of the class!

I haven't 100% dropped anything, but it's extremely rare I have red meat and won't have lamb or pork. I have a "reduced meat" diet that's mostly chicken, and have started growing my own veggies and seasonings in my own garden. I also cut down on heavy rainforest killers like most chocolates and coffee, and "attempt" to cut down on palm oil products (that shit is EVERYWHERE).

There's no way of easily explaining it to most people tho, so I'm just an average carnivorous gal.

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SnipesCC t1_iumz0mc wrote

I generally say it's easier to convince 7 people to do meatless Mondays than 1 person to go full vegetarian/vegan. And that has the same reduction in total meat consumption. I'm not fully vegan, but a lot of my meals are, and I've been replacing eggs with Just Egg a lot lately. I may go fully vegan one of these days, especially as the substitutes on the market get better and better.

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SnipesCC t1_iumy3a2 wrote

I've been a vegetarian for over 25 years. Had tons of meat eaters bother me about it, harass me, and make fun of me. Had a total of 1 vegan ask me why I wasn't vegan. And I'm friends with a lot of vegans, so I'm in the vicinity of them all the time.

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FuehrerStoleMyBike t1_iun1qi6 wrote

I am not going to argue that obviously more harassment comes from meat-eater side (which makes sense as they make up about 90% of people). But your experience still pretty much proves my point that there is nothing to gain by self-describing yourself as vegetarian on twitter. Even in your progressive bubble you got asked about it - you can imagine that itd happen more often on an anonymous social media plattform then in your circle of frends. So nothing to gain as a vegetarian --> no self-disclosure. Why do people self-discribe as vegan? For the clout. No clout - no self-description.

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SnipesCC t1_iun2we3 wrote

I don't describe myself in any ways for the 'clout'. And my friend asking me why I wasn't vegan wasn't harassment. It was a question. Compare that to the boss who was made me buy steaks for the company BBQ, dispite knowing how much that would upset me. Or talking about how wonderful his German Potato Salad was, knowing it's the only meat product I actually miss. Or the people making animal noises like mooing while eating to bother me. A simple 'you've been a vegetarian for such a long time, why not go full vegan' is nothing.

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FuehrerStoleMyBike t1_iun7qwj wrote

I feel like were talking at cross purposes. I never said anything about you. I made an assumption on how vegans behave on twitter and why (which is the purpose of this thread).

Your friends are obviously nice people (and your boss isnt) - but that doesnt really apply on twitter where you interact with strangers. People on twitter care about being recognized as vegans, while they dont care too much about being recognized as vegetarians - thats what the data suggests and what we should discuss about.

To me your experience of getting hate from meat-eaters while your vegan friends dont care was a good example of how even in the best case (the best case being you in a progressive circle of friends) you dont gain anything by self-describing as vegetarian. Then I transposed your real life scenario onto twitter and my argument was that twitter just makes everything worse - so your experience of being a self-describing vegetarian on twitter would be even worse than it is IRL.

As were both vegetarians with a big circle of vegan friends I think were allies here and shouldnt get on each others throats.

btw I have a very good recipe for vegan german potato salad (the one with vinegar/oil) - basically from my grandma but changed a bit to make it vegan (she didnt taste the difference and if grandma doesnt taste it nobody does) if you are interested.

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SnipesCC t1_iunaaj3 wrote

If you have a link, I would appreciate it. My mom tried making it without bacon, and it just wasn't the same. But it's been decades, replacement meat products have come a long way.

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thegapbetweenus t1_ium2sfm wrote

Or a lot of (moral) reasons for being vegetarian, if you are consequent, would lead you to become vegan.

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SickMemeMahBoi t1_iumwmyz wrote

This is the point people miss, it's not about our feelings or being superior or anything, I went vegan for the environment three years ago, stayed vegan for the animals.

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SnipesCC t1_iumzayi wrote

I did the same the other way around. Became vegetarian for the animals, stayed both for them and because of the environmental factors. I didn't know a lot about the environmental effects of the beef industry on global warming as a 12 year old in the mid nineties.

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Alas7ymedia t1_iumz2eq wrote

You are assuming a linear behaviour for human decisions, but in the same way that a person would eat a cow but not a horse, some people draw the line at fish, others at eggs, and so on.

As a vegetarian myself, I have read that the economic, health and environmental benefits of not eating meat draw a curve with an optimal point right before becoming full vegetarian; going vegan can easily feel like going too far since the price of ingredients and carbon and water footprints start going up again when you start to diversify your diet to replace the things you liked before and that is before considering the social impact of not sharing other people's food.

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thegapbetweenus t1_iunhvma wrote

>You are assuming a linear behaviour for human decisions

Not really, but I get your point. At the same time we both are assuming people are rational optimisers (my point is just a logical one). A popular believe in economics, but I would strongly argue against it.

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BrotherMichigan t1_ium1efz wrote

I would love to see a cross-correlation with other such signals, like the inclusion of gender pronouns when the user is neither transsexual nor in any danger of being misgendered.

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SnipesCC t1_iumzjc5 wrote

It's not terribly surprising that people who care about animals and the environment also care about other people more than average.

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Miketogoz t1_iulo9r2 wrote

I just see it as vegan being a too much of a foreign word in 2010 and after it became a wide known concept, lots of vegetarians actually realized they were vegans.

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pumpkin_fire t1_ium1uvu wrote

Who didn't know what veganism was in 2010? It was absolutely a well known concept. Scott Pilgrim vs the World the movie came out in 2010 and has a whole subplot mocking vegans, and it was in no way some obscure concept back then. It had already been a mainstream concept for decades by that point. The Simpsons episode where Lisa discusses veganism with Paul McCartney came out in 1995, and no-one was like "what the fuck is veganism?".

I'm very curious how old you were in 2010.

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Miketogoz t1_iumplar wrote

17yo if you are interested in. I'm not saying the concept didn't exist, just that it wasn't as hip as it is now. I don't really remember seeing vegan dishes at restaurants, just vegetarian ones.

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I_am_Godfather1 t1_ium9efm wrote

Vegetarianism is based on religion. Veganism on animal abuse prevention

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excitato t1_iumt6ni wrote

Not exclusively. My wife is vegetarian for moral reasons and likes cheese (among other things), so she has little interest in becoming vegan.

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