Avg_reddit_user6969 t1_itp1aii wrote on October 25, 2022 at 7:14 AM

Reply to comment by binz17 in [OC] Climbing Accidents in North American Climbing by chnetka

I haven’t looked at the sources but there is not a chance equipment failure is less than lightning!

gibson_se t1_itpayuk wrote on October 25, 2022 at 9:35 AM

I would suspect part of that is how they assign "main causes". If you fall, and a piece pulls out when the rope comes taught, is that a "fall" accident or a "piece" accident?

I can see how someone might get hit by lightning, but I can't really see how an accident could happen from gear just failing spontaneously.

Turtley13 t1_itqnzas wrote on October 25, 2022 at 4:27 PM

Exactly. Not many people are going to be taking out ropes that are on the verge of breaking without something happening before. When they do it's going to happen when taking a fall.

Turtley13 t1_itqnsig wrote on October 25, 2022 at 4:26 PM

You have to think of equipment failure as a MAIN cause.

For example a typical failure may be on a quick draw. That draw is only going to break once there is a big load on it. So would happen during a fall. It would then be categorized as a secondary cause.

binz17 t1_itqzrn1 wrote on October 25, 2022 at 5:43 PM

but aborting a fall is the primary function of many pieces of gear. saying that the fall is the main issue and absolving the gear is kind of meaningless. that would basically mean that you could only fault the gear in a static load situation.

i'm still a gumby though and cant climb overhangs. i tend to down climb and take rather than risk a big fall on slab and vertical walls... lol

Turtley13 t1_itr62js wrote on October 25, 2022 at 6:23 PM

Think about it this way. I'll give you examples.

Scenario 1

Climber falls while leading and his last draw breaks (equipment failure). Get's injured. MAIN cause FALL, SECONDARY EQUIP FAILURE
Scenario 1 doesn't occur if the person doesn't fall.

Scenario 2

Climber takes a take and loads his draw. It breaks (equipment failure).

Main cause is equipment failure.

See the difference?

binz17 t1_itrbgds wrote on October 25, 2022 at 6:57 PM

yah, thats essentially what i said.

except that falling is part of climbing. if your equipment fails on a fall and you get injured, the equipment is the primary reason for the injury imo.

It would be like having statistics on why most skydivers die and the top result is sudden stop. It's just not interesting and informative.

Turtley13 t1_itrkfa7 wrote on October 25, 2022 at 7:54 PM

Falling while single pitch and pushing your limits sure falling is common.

Alpine climbing a fall is not something you ever want to do. Running out gear is very common in say the Canadian Rockies where gear placement is terrible.

It's not the same as your sky diving comparison.