Submitted by uhhiforget t3_xznhkm in dataisbeautiful
redeggplant01 t1_irn88zb wrote
Rampant gun violence is a red flag that your government has implemented bad gun control policies and disincentives gun ownership
JustaOrdinaryDemiGod t1_irnhkev wrote
If you go out into rural areas, the amount of gun ownership is alot higher and has no where near the amount of gun violence. So there is something else at play vs just the gun laws.
SeanyBravo t1_irnnm70 wrote
Suicides are conflated with gun violence to make is seem like gun violence is uniform with ownership.
Expandexplorelive t1_irp8ait wrote
Suicides are violence.
SeanyBravo t1_irp99j8 wrote
You don’t solve suicides with the same style of programs or legislation that you solve homicides and assaults with. One is an issue of mental health well the other is an issue of many confounding factors such as poverty, gangs, and educations. If you honestly want solutions to either of these problems we have to treat them as different types of violence. Treating them as the same only is used as a way to manipulate data to make problems appear to have different roots then they really do.
Expandexplorelive t1_irpa5n7 wrote
>You don’t solve suicides with the same style of programs or legislation that you solve homicides and assaults with.
I mostly agree.
>Treating them as the same only is used as a way to manipulate data to make problems appear to have different roots then they really do.
To what end?
SeanyBravo t1_irpc8vt wrote
its an effort to make it appear that higher legal gun ownership rates = higher gun homicide and shooting rates as that’s what people typically associate with the term gun violence. If we consider suicides and criminal shootings the same we get the leaders in gun “violence” per capita being the likes of AK, MT, and other rural state with high amounts of gun suicides to total population. If we don’t include suicides in gun violence we end up getting leading state like IL, DC, Missouri, and some of the poorer southern states. Some of these places still have high gun ownership rates well others have Low ownership rates. The reality is that poverty and lower education do a lot better job of predicting gun violence then legal ownership rates.
This site has a map that helps visualize the differences when we consider suicides versus when we don’t.
[deleted] t1_irq9yxq wrote
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Chuck_A_Wei_1 t1_irnw8c8 wrote
Pretty sure it has more to do with the collapse of industry and the complicated socioeconomic conditions of cities, and nothing to do with insufficient incentives for gun ownership.
Many of the cities with the worst gun violence are in states with some of the most gun friendly laws, like St Louis, Missouri; Birmingham, Alabama; Memphis, Tennessee; and Dayton, Ohio (all of which have experienced industrial collapse in recent generations).
mmarollo t1_iroc4je wrote
The area where I grew up has almost universal gun ownership and a near zero homicide rate. The UK rid of guns and the gangs there just started killing each other with knives. I wish it was as simple to fix as you think it is.
Expandexplorelive t1_irp8g8o wrote
What is the overall homicide rate or homicide-by-knife rate in the UK and how does it compare to the US?
redeggplant01 t1_irp538d wrote
brian_sahn t1_irndxw9 wrote
Can you link a study that shows this? I’m skeptical because everything I see is the opposite
SeanyBravo t1_irnnhrq wrote
Both these link conflate suicides whit gun violence. When this is done it to make gun “violence” seem more uniform when the reality is that place where guns are legally available to the citizen have more gun suicides well the place where guns are hard to obtain for any citizen tend to have more non-gun suicides. Making data on violence appear uniform when it’s far from the truth.
[deleted] t1_irnowfx wrote
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SeanyBravo t1_irns8ti wrote
Your own links stat that they included the fact that 60% of gun deaths are suicides. When we don’t control for suicides we get leaders in gun “violence” being the likes of AK, WY, and MT. When we only look at police and criminal shootings places like IL, DC, and the impoverished southern state lead.
You can look at this handy map here
The reality is that the predictors of gun violence is more closely related to poverty then ownership.
Pretending gun suicides and gun violence are the same keeps you unable to solve either issue as you will never address the true root problems.
Kelrakh t1_irqzx1q wrote
The problem with gun ownership is that you risk a societal arms race. Once you are in one it's like riding a tiger, a lot more dangerous to get off than to get on.
I think though, that gun ownership could be mostly upheld if gun violence went down.
Though I don't see much desire among owners to help with the efforts to do that.
My own take is that replacing male achievement with male self-assertion is the one of the main causes of gang violence, firearms use, crime, etc.
redeggplant01 t1_irr05gn wrote
No, you don't ... and the violent crime rate in the US ( of which gun violence ( real gun violence not suicides and accidents being lumped in ) is a small subset ) is a lot lower that other Western nations with their repressive gun laws
aradil t1_irtp37s wrote
Got an example?
[edit] They gave an example of Australia that appears to have been deleted by a mod, and then appear to have blocked me.
The closest the murder rate per 100k population between the US and Australia has been in the last 5 years was 5 times worse in the US than in Australia. Try again.
[deleted] t1_irtpe2r wrote
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