Submitted by Roughneck16 t3_11hp9jd in dataisbeautiful
Comments
SobriquetHeart t1_jaulztd wrote
Yield in college admissions is the percent of students who choose to enroll in a particular college or university after having been offered admission. ~Wikipedia
float16 t1_jayqnmi wrote
Brigham Young University might also be near the top in another kind of yield.
Roughneck16 OP t1_jbsxi0v wrote
Its sponsoring institution isn't exactly strapped for cash š
Roughneck16 OP t1_jaum2yb wrote
Thatās correct.
phdoofus t1_jaulds2 wrote
I would guess number of offers of enrollment accepted vs number sent.
[deleted] t1_javtnk5 wrote
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[deleted] t1_jaukimn wrote
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Freedometer t1_jauu35i wrote
Many top students must apply to most of the top schools so it seems like they coordinate acceptances or those numbers would be lower.
twisted_cistern t1_jaw5apu wrote
There are early acceptance programs wherein one can only apply to one college
Freedometer t1_jaw75u7 wrote
Good point. I wonder what percentage get in that way.
IkeRoberts t1_jaxq1kc wrote
Some of the top schools got caught coordinating some time ago, and the Feds came down hard on them. They don't do that any more.
Jackdaw99 t1_jaw6rq9 wrote
This is a little stange to me: I may be misunderstanding something. I would assume that a large proportion of kids who apply to, say, Harvard, are also applying to Princeton, Yale, and so on. So how could they all have such high yield rates?
Roughneck16 OP t1_jawbkw0 wrote
Even if you have perfect grades and scores, your chances to get into one of these schools is still super low, especially if youāre white, Asian, and not a legacy student. You can apply to all the Ivies and only get into one.
Jackdaw99 t1_jawe6yk wrote
Forgive me if this feels like boasting, but that's not my experience. I'm white, not a legacy, went to public schools, and got into 3 of the 4 that I applied to. They're mostly looking for the same things (alas).
lonelydriver187 t1_jayna1o wrote
one person is not a good sample size
Jackdaw99 t1_jaysd0c wrote
No, of course it's not. But -- of course -- I knew the backgrounds and paths of those classmates who were my friends, as well as friends from high school who had much the same sort of choices. Nevertheless, I'm not claiming this is dispositive: all I said was that the OP's contention it wasn't my experience. If anything, his evidence, with an apparent sample size of 0, is even thinner than mine.
Roughneck16 OP t1_jdmhanu wrote
According this site: https://collegeai.com/chanceme
Someone with perfect grades and scores only has a 14% chance of getting into Princeton.
Jackdaw99 t1_jdvv2j7 wrote
Perfect grades and scores aren't really the determining factors: recommendations, extracurriculars, and above all the application essay count for more, provided your test scroes are good enough.
uncre8tv t1_jdmo0jt wrote
Man, if the other two only knew what a bullet they dodged.
Jackdaw99 t1_jdmpk7s wrote
I'm guessing your own math skills are a little lacking.
Roughneck16 OP t1_jawek8w wrote
Which did you pick and why, if you donāt mind me asking? What did you study?
Jackdaw99 t1_jawh1jo wrote
Brown, as an undergraduate, because it was considered sort of artsy (this was a while ago). Columbia for grad school. In both cases, I studied philosophy.
Roughneck16 OP t1_jawokw1 wrote
What do you do with something like that jobwise?
Jackdaw99 t1_jawztab wrote
Well, the intention was to teach -- and write -- philosophy, but I left before I got my doctorate. Still, it's actually fantastic training for just about anything, because it teaches you to think -- to reason -- as carefully (and quickly), and to write as clearly, as you possibly can. Two skills which any employer appreciates -- any white-collar employer, anyway, and probably any employer at all. Unless you have another, very clear vocation in mind, it's ideal training for almost any profession, from law to journalism to medicine to business. What I actually do is kind of...public, the sort of thing where my name matters, so I'd prefer not to say in an open forum. I like making an ass out of myself on Reddit from time to time... But I appreciate your interest.
Roughneck16 OP t1_jax8see wrote
So the main advantage of elite universities isn't the quality of the instruction, it's the strength of the alumni network. A Brown alumnus can major in something irrelevant and leverage their professional connections with the scions of wealthy and well-connected families to land a good-paying jobs. And you're right, many jobs are all about OJT and that foundation in reasoning and communication skills will prove invaluable. That was the same logic the military had on commissioning me to be an officer with my BS in civil engineering (which I didn't directly use for most of my career, but helped me develop invaluable problem-solving skills.)
I went to a non-elite institution (it's still on that chart), but honestly I could've gone to any college and my career would've been the same. Prestige is mostly a non-issue in engineering.
Jackdaw99 t1_jaxbk16 wrote
Hang on: I didn't say anything about any alumni network, or leveraging professional connections with scions of whatever, or prestige, nor did I say that I studied something irrelevant. Quite the contrary. In fact, if you'd taken a philosophy course or two, you might have learned not to set up a straw man. They get blown over pretty easily.
As for elitism: I dunno. Some of my friends and colleagues have fancy educations and some don't. Talent will out, wherever it comes from, and brilliance needs no pedigree. That said, I'm grateful for the education I received. I have no idea if I could have received the same or better somewhere else. I'm long past the point of caring.
At no point since the day I graduated college has anyone in any work context ever -- ever -- asked me where I went to school, or what I studied.
Roughneck16 OP t1_jaukc32 wrote
SOURCES
METHODOLOGY
Excel
WHAT IS YIELD?
Yield is the percentage of accepted students who choose to enroll. If a university has a high yield rate, itās more likely to be the first choice of the students who apply there.
HOW WELL DOES ACCEPTANCE RATE PREDICT YIELD?
With a coefficient of determination of 0.51, we know that 51% of the variance in the yield can be predicted using the acceptance rate. That's a strong negative correlation. Basically, the lower the percentage of applicants admitted, the more likely those applicants will choose to enroll.
But, of course, some schools buck that trend. By using a line of best fit to project the predicted outcomes and subtracting it from the observed outcomes, we can see the residuals. Here are the top 20 universities in which students seem unusually eager to enroll:
| + | University | Residual |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | Brigham Young University | 52.88% |
| 2 | Gallaudet University | 36.28% |
| 3 | Yeshiva University | 31.75% |
| 4 | Harvard University | 31.25% |
| 5 | Princeton University | 30.25% |
| 6 | University of Chicago | 29.19% |
| 7 | Stanford University | 28.25% |
| 8 | Massachusetts Institute of Technology | 25.25% |
| 9 | University of Pennsylvania | 24.19% |
| 10 | University of Utah | 21.66% |
| 11 | Texas A&M University-College Station | 20.21% |
| 12 | Yale University | 19.72% |
| 13 | Dartmouth College | 19.19% |
| 14 | University of Kansas | 18.26% |
| 15 | Iowa State University | 17.80% |
| 16 | University of Oklahoma | 17.00% |
| 17 | Brown University | 15.19% |
| 18 | Cornell University | 14.58% |
| 19 | University of Missouri | 14.27% |
| 20 | Arizona State University-Tempe | 13.40% |
In other words, BYU's yield is a full 52.88 points above where it should be when you consider its relatively high acceptance rate. Thatās unsurprising considering how BYU is a niche school sponsored by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. LDS students only have to pay ~$3k per semester to attend. Students also have to sign a strict honor code, which scares away many non-LDS applicants. Yeshiva and Notre Dame are also religious schools, for the Jewish and Roman Catholic faiths, respectively. All three of these religions emphasize endogamy (marrying their own kind) so it should come as no surprise that many students meet their significant other while attending. Gallaudet University is also an interesting outlier, as itās a school for the deaf.
You may be surprised to see Ivy League schools on this list, considering how they have such low acceptance rates. Keep in mind: admissions to elite colleges isnāt a strict meritocracy. Of course, you have to have sky-high grades and test scores to be considered, but beyond that, itās a crap shoot. Itās possible for someone to have the perfect application and still get into only one if any Ivy League school. And when you consider how most of these students either have rich parents or get generous need-based assistance, most choose to enroll whichever one lets them in.
WHICH SCHOOLS HAVE LOWER-THAN-PREDICTED YIELDS?
Using that same line of best fit, here are the bottom 20 residuals:
| + | University | Residual |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | University of California-Santa Barbara | -24.10% |
| 2 | Case Western Reserve University | -23.63% |
| 3 | University of California-Irvine | -19.10% |
| 4 | University of California-San Diego | -18.77% |
| 5 | Clark University | -18.24% |
| 6 | University of Miami | -17.56% |
| 7 | Boston University | -16.76% |
| 8 | California State University-Long Beach | -16.71% |
| 9 | Fordham University | -15.58% |
| 10 | Binghamton University | -15.11% |
| 11 | Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute | -14.91% |
| 12 | University of Rochester | -14.50% |
| 13 | Loyola Marymount University | -14.17% |
| 14 | University of California-Santa Cruz | -14.12% |
| 15 | Emory University | -13.55% |
| 16 | Stony Brook University | -13.24% |
| 17 | Villanova University | -12.96% |
| 18 | Pepperdine University | -12.91% |
| 19 | University of Denver | -12.79% |
| 20 | University of California-Davis | -12.78% |
My guess is that many of the high-performing students who get into these schools decline to enroll because they donāt offer adequate financial aid, or they get better offers elsewhere.
DOES THE RANKING ALSO PREDICT THE YIELD?
It does. The coefficient of determination between rank and yield is 0.41, which is a significant predictor although somewhat less so than the acceptance rate. Iām reluctant to use the USNWR rankings as they are arbitrary and unscientific. Also, there are quite a few ties in there.
Asking which is the ātop schoolā is like asking which animals make better pets: cats or dogs?
ladybug10101 t1_jazlld0 wrote
TAMU is a goal for lots of students because of School spirit and traditions
Bayesian11 t1_jb4308n wrote
If you are a Texas resident planning to attend a public school, there aren't many good options. That's why UT and A&M are high on the list.
welmoe t1_jcw13zy wrote
Gig 'em or Hook 'em (horns)
T E X A S
Roughneck16 OP t1_jb45z9d wrote
UT-Permian Basin isn't a chart-topping school, but their petroleum engineering graduates are making six-figure salaries out the gate. Big Oil pays big.
nine_of_swords t1_jax018y wrote
Random calculations:
States/District with the most number places on the list: 19-California, 15-New York, 10-Massachusetts, 9-Pennsylvannia, 7-New Jersey, Illinois, 6-Texas, 5-DC, North Carolina, Florida. Three states have four, eight have three, and nine have two (Unless St. Thomas is referring to Texas, in which case Texas has seven and Minnesota only has one.). Nevada, Arkansas, Mississippi, New Mexico, Idaho, West Virginia, Hawaii, Maine, Montana, South Dakota, North Dakota, Alaska and Wyoming have none.
Most per capita: 1 DC (5 with pop 671,803), 2 VT (1 with 647,064), 3 NH (2 with 1,395,231), 4 MA (10 with 6,981,974), 5 DE (1 with 1,018,396), 6 IA (3 with 3,200,517), 7 RI (1 with 1,093,734), 8 CT (3 with 3,626,205), 9 AL (4 with 5,074,296), 10 NY (15 with 19,677,151). After 11 NJ (7 with 9,261,699) and 12 PA (9 with 12,972,008) the ratio starts to drop off.
Granted, the universities aren't all of the same competitiveness. All of Alabama's (Auburn, Samford, Alabama, UAB) are in that 23-27% range. New Jersey has Princeton (82%), Rutgers (24%) and everything else sub 20%.
Roughneck16 OP t1_jax8zvz wrote
Nice work!
VREISME t1_jauk96c wrote
Yield of what? Endowments?
Roughneck16 OP t1_jaukg75 wrote
Read my comment for an explanation: https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/11hp9jd/comment/jaukc32/
Kesshh t1_jaul29s wrote
Not seeing any commentā¦
Condimentary t1_jaulbgv wrote
Weirdly if you go to his profile you see his comments about the definition as well as his sources, both posted to this post.
Roughneck16 OP t1_jaultec wrote
Yeah, what the heck is happening?!
Trade__Genius t1_jaum7uq wrote
No idea, but finding your explanation was well worth the effort. Thank you. I learned something.
Roughneck16 OP t1_jaumcd5 wrote
Youāre welcome. Is your alma mater on there?
Trade__Genius t1_jaxx6vv wrote
No. I went to a smaller state school. Nothing that usually makes national rankings.
jwill602 t1_jaul3ep wrote
Thereās no comment Iām seeing?
Roughneck16 OP t1_jaulu5e wrote
[deleted] t1_jaulhaa wrote
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gt0075b t1_jaulnm8 wrote
"an explanation" was in his comment. r/technicallythetruth
adanowski95 t1_jauwhq5 wrote
This is very interesting, thank you! I work in admissions and yield rate is a big topic of discussion in our work. I'm curious, where did you get this data set? US News and World Report?
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soapdispensary t1_jaum9lz wrote
Yield is enrollment divided by acceptances. Higher yield means those that apply are more likely to attend. Itās just another way to express acceptance rates.
UsernameTaken1701 t1_jawcjiq wrote
Obviously, given that those that don't apply are not at all likely to attend.
soapdispensary t1_jawwktx wrote
It means those with low yield have a lot of students that apply and get accepted but would rather go to another school, smart ass.
NotYourAdviser t1_jbl6s6c wrote
A couple of years ago, ISU changed to the common application. This made it easier for students to click a box and their app would be turned into ISU along with other schools. Previous to that, students needed to specifically find and fill out ISU's application. I wonder what span of time this data was taken from, and at what point we were in the common app process. Generally, numbers with the common app are higher but yield could be less stable.
Roughneck16 OP t1_jcw1e6g wrote
A top-rated STEM school for < $10k per year? ISU is the best deal for Iowa students.
Deatrxx t1_jbur035 wrote
It makes sense honestly, UCSB is a higher end school but it definitely doesn't stand against the top top top schools. For the smartest students this is more of a safety school than anything, however I am interested to know where they got this data from.
Acquiredpolicy t1_jaumfd2 wrote
Why the hell is BYU so high up?
Roughneck16 OP t1_jaumk0u wrote
Itās an amazingly good deal for a small segment of the population and an extremely unattractive prospect for everyone else. In other words, if youāre applying to BYU, itās probably your first choice.
Last year, BYU was #1.
GreenBeans1999 t1_jauug6g wrote
A lot of Mormon families also put a ton of pressure on their kids to go to BYU and some parents will even refuse to help pay for any other school.
Source: I am one of those kids
newnameonan t1_javw5fu wrote
My wife was one of those kids also. She also had the option of BYU-Idaho šµ
JumboThornton t1_javwph9 wrote
Yikes! Sorry to hear that.
everything_is_free t1_jb325et wrote
Yeshiva University is also very high for many of the same reasons.
Roughneck16 OP t1_jb33q5g wrote
Both cater to endogamous religious communities.
Acquiredpolicy t1_jaupdxu wrote
Interesting, makes sense, smaller denominator
wager_me_this t1_javnbko wrote
Itās 1/10th the cost of tuition.
[deleted] t1_jauwx9n wrote
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restore_democracy t1_jb36dsv wrote
How ātopā can you be when only 10% of the students you accept want to actually attend?
Roughneck16 OP t1_jb36ynu wrote
Good question!
These magazine rankings are super subjective and unscientific. Also, I think many students who get admitted to these schools also get admitted to other good schools and can find better financial aid there.
YetYetAnotherPerson t1_jbvuhc3 wrote
Not so high. Notre Dame and Brigham Young (analogous Catholic and Mormon schools) have higher yield. I presume it's [as it is in the two schools above] a mix of students who went to feeder high schools and students who want an insular environment.
[deleted] t1_jauz5lu wrote
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AdLess636 t1_jaxif1t wrote
University of Chicago. Iām not aware of how this college ranks so high. The rest in order I get. What is the specialty at this college?
Roughneck16 OP t1_jaxilnw wrote
Economics is their most popular major I believe.
spikebrennan t1_jaxtbhi wrote
University of Chicago has dramatically climbed this particular leaderboard over the past 10 years or so. They used to be high prestige but very low yield - essentially, they had a difficult time making themselves anyoneās first choice.
That seems to have changed.
Bayesian11 t1_jb436qg wrote
U of Chicago competes with the best colleges in the nation, but who wants to move to Chicago if Boston is an option?
Roughneck16 OP t1_jb465vy wrote
My buddy got his PhD there. He said it's less stressful if you live close enough to campus to fall under the campus police security blanket. Otherwise, it's scary.
welmoe t1_jcw1gny wrote
> they had a difficult time making themselves anyoneās first choice.
Had a friend who went there for undergrad and even before he started he knew about the infamous saying of "the place where fun goes to die".
Human_Comfort_4144 t1_jay8o3g wrote
Does a low yield rate at a private school mean that the student could be in a better place in negotiating financial aid? Iām referring to the single digit of the private schools near the bottom of the chart. Or perhaps those schools donāt care about yield rates? Isnāt it the higher the yield rate the more points on a ranking system?
PigletDisastrous715 t1_jb0mui5 wrote
Are many schools significantly under full capacity? I would be interested to see that stat too.
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turnbullac t1_jcpbymi wrote
Look how far down the safety schools Loyola and DePaul are lol
Sandz_ t1_jcvmh0g wrote
This data is complete dogshit if you didnāt exclude early and waitlist students
[deleted] t1_jcvt29n wrote
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Jarkside t1_jdmgfl1 wrote
Some schools court applications just to reject studentsā¦ it makes them look artificially selective
Roughneck16 OP t1_jdmgngv wrote
What?! Source?
Jarkside t1_jdmj6ms wrote
āAdmissions stats also played a big role in the rankings formula. In 2003, ranked at 127, Northeastern began accepting the online Common Application, making it easier for students to apply. The more applications NU could drum up, the more students they could turn away, thus making the school appear more selective. A year later, NU ranked 120.ā - https://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/2014/08/26/how-northeastern-gamed-the-college-rankings/
It also makes them money. Reject a $100 application and have $30 of labor and cots in it = $70 profit
Roughneck16 OP t1_jdmjhtp wrote
Aha! No big surprise there. Looks like a classic case of Campbellās Law.
DaddyCreepsnake t1_javdk51 wrote
Every one of those college run the biggest scam in history. I went to college, when I seen the prices and rules around the REQUIRED books, I slid them right back across the table and withdrew that week. The college of course kept my pell grant, and a few years later I'm making nearly 60 an hour without 100k in college debt. One of the best decisions I ever made.
Roskassa t1_jaxqyfs wrote
That number seems to be quite low if i may say so myself, I am making north of 140 an hour without ever touching the grounds of college.
Brilliant-Ad-5414 t1_jaukfhq wrote
What is a university Yield Rate?