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HortaNord t1_j6ufpdt wrote

It should be banned for any minor as the addiction on young people is just out of control

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skilliard7 t1_j6vyna3 wrote

Unpopular opinion, but I don't think Tiktok addiction is any worse than videogame addiction. And I say this as someone that plays games(responsibly) and doesn't really use Tiktok(I only look at videos my friend sends me)

I know a LOT of people my age that let videogames get in the way of their responsibilities. It's a big contributor to the declining labor force participation rate in young men and poor academic outcomes.

Tiktok isn't really any worse than any other social media. Like why is it wrong for people to spend an hour a day on TikTok, but okay for people to spend all day on Reddit/YouTube?

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ClassOptimal7655 t1_j6y65mn wrote

Tiktok even starts showing reminders to take a break from the app, I've never seen anything like that on Facebook, or Youtube.

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Suspicious-Till174 t1_j6xcn5l wrote

Maybe due to the specific design of the interaction. I don't want to pick sides here and i think you have a point there. But maybe tiktok is too good at what it is doing. Maybe this only affects certain people.

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NeverrSummer t1_j6uozs0 wrote

How many things do you think you enjoyed as a child/teenager that at least some adults of the time said that about?

I've heard people suggest making the internet illegal for minors. I've heard old people suggest making all video games illegal. Don't be part of that.

Don't ban TikTok specifically. Pass reforms that require better privacy and data collection behavior from all social media companies, Chinese or American.

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HortaNord t1_j6uto7n wrote

it's not about the data collection or privacy, it's about depression, anxiety and suicide behavior in young people driven by the business model of modern social media

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Nemesis034 t1_j6uvq8d wrote

This. The tik tok algo, whether it's by design or just algo gone amok, is actively promoting content glorifiyng mental illness as something hip that people should get involved with. It's kinda like the emo trend of the 2000s but worse. No video game, thriller/horror movie or what have you will tell you it's hip to have and/or identify with mental illness..

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NeverrSummer t1_j6uwccr wrote

So exactly what reddit does? Glorify depression and bipolar disorder and suicide jokes because it makes good memes?

You never been to /r/me_irl or /r/dankmemes before? They're quite large/popular.

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Nemesis034 t1_j6uwury wrote

Yup. However reddit don't have an algo actively pushing it..

Edit: caught your edit (second paragraph for posterity) and those are specific subs. Not sitewide.

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NeverrSummer t1_j6ux8n1 wrote

They get pushed to signed out users same as any other sub with enough traffic. I fail to see how that's different than algorithmic selection from a new user perspective.

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Nemesis034 t1_j6uxgr2 wrote

True. Some of it reaches the front page. But only some. On tik tok it's overepresented af.

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NeverrSummer t1_j6uxmxk wrote

Do you have any data or insider information to validate that? Because I would argue that I see significantly more depression memes on Reddit than what my friends have ever shown me on TikTok.

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NeverrSummer t1_j6uvzuo wrote

TikTok is no worse than reddit or Facebook or video games or MSN Messenger or IRC or BBS or television or radio or books or whatever other shit the adults of the generation claimed was "poisoning the youth".

You aren't enlightened. You're just old.

This is the exact same moral panic we've been seeing for centuries, and pretending TikTok is truly the most serious it's ever been is extreme hypocrisy.

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DefinitelyNotMasterS t1_j6uzt8e wrote

People being wrong in the past doesn't mean that people will always be wrong in the future, what a bizarre take.

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NeverrSummer t1_j6v04tx wrote

Well no... but hundreds of years of being wrong in the exact same way might be evidence to hesitate about coming to the same conclusions yourself.

It doesn't obviate being wrong, but it suggests caution for sure, right?

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Jammintoad t1_j6v4izu wrote

And people also thought cigarettes and alcohol was good for you. That doesn't mean they are. It's not just a generational difference in behavior, it's consumption of a substance.

Sure you can live a full life doing things that are unhealthy. That doesn't make them ultimately "good" for you

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NeverrSummer t1_j74w2km wrote

And you honestly, genuinely in your heart of hearts, think that is worse than all the shit I saw on 4chan and LiveLeak as a child?

To the point that we need to ban TikTok because the algorithm is just that toxic, but me seeing a beheading when I was like nine was okay? Those parts of the internet were and are fine?

Or is your argument that those are also a problem and we need a "great firewall of America" where only approved websites are allowed to grace our delicate children's eyes?

How do you differentiate between individual responsibility, parental responsibility, and governmental responsibility for online content?

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Jammintoad t1_j7517ij wrote

I didn't say anything about banning tik tok or even regulating it. Don't put words in my mouth. And no, I don't think you should have seen those things as a young child, at least without someone helping you deal with them.

Alcohol nor cigarettes are banned, but that doesn't mean we can't view them as generally unhealthy in most cases.

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HortaNord t1_j6wqjuu wrote

MSN Messenger & IRC didn't had an AI throwing pointless content at your face, this is the difference betwen something usable and something toxic

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NeverrSummer t1_j6x0aeq wrote

Sure they just had humans doing it, which seems equivalent.

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lowspeccrt t1_j73kzxf wrote

I agree with you. TikTok is a scape goat for fear without acknowledging the core issues.

And for the people who say it's about targeting our youth they are not the only ones. And they won't be the last. Pass reform and regulations is the key.

ALSO develop an education system that teaches social and emotional learning to our children so they can handle and work with the ever evolving world of addiction and misinformation.

But you know, you gotta be able to find root causes and most people arent equipped with that skill. They stop thinking once their emotions start turning.

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sexy_wash_bucket t1_j6vbdl8 wrote

No. Tiktok is literally rewiring kids’ brains. Shortened attention span, depression, anxiety. Not to mention bullying, asinine trends, and rampant porn-adjacent content that gets seen by literally anyone who has the app. It’s a cesspool and is quantifiably lowering human productivity.

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NeverrSummer t1_j74wfnu wrote

So again.. reddit and YouTube

The content is a result of the audience. Teenagers have always been this way. You're just out of touch.

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Oddity_Odyssey t1_j6v64ad wrote

I understand where you're coming from but tik tok specifically uses a format that essentially follows the science of addiction.

When a behavior is reinforced at an inconsistent rate the behayis likely to be maintained longer and will be harder to extenguish.

Say you're at casino. You are bad at black jack and have never won a game in your entire life. You sit at the blackjack table and as predicted, you lose everything you put in. (I don't know the specifics of the game but that isn't important) after losing consistently you give up on your first try at the casino.

The behavior (playing blackjack) has a history of always resulting in a loss (punishment). Thus it stands to reason that on the first loss, you quit playing because you know deep down that you will never win a game of blackjack.

Next you go to a slot machine. You play the slots and the first time you get $.50. "Okay" you think. So you put in another $5. You lose several more times until you win again. This times it's 50$. You play some more and lose some more and when the night ie over you have won $150! But you've lost $300.

The behavior (gambling) had an inconsistent history of reinforcement. The first win (reinforcement) was small, then several losses (punishment), then another small win (reinforcement), etc. The behavior (gaming) was strengthened and the duration and inte sity increased because the gambler didn't know when the next win was coming. Therefore they were more inclined to engage in the behavior (gambling) more frequently and intensely to achieve reinforcement (a win).

Tik tok follows this pattern by the way that it shows you content. Tik tok doesn't know exactly what you like, so it makes some educted guesses. Some of the guesses are good! It's conte t that you like so you watch it and enjoy it (reinforcement). Some of the videos are shit and you scroll past (punishment). Because the algorithm is always learning and always trying new content they are in effect replicating a slot machine with small wins and more losses. This is addictive. Full stop.

Not on my that but they are fully aware of this and how to use it to manipulate users to staying on longer. For instance they can see data on how long a user watches specific content. They can then increast the amount of that content to keep you on the service for longer.

It's honestly a cancer

I'm a professional in the human behavior feild but I can't use my actual credential.

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