Submitted by Miserable_Ride666 t3_10l2oqt in boston
Moved back up north after living in the south for a while. First big winter gas bill and feel like we are getting fleeced. I figure crowd source a fair rate or validate it really is this expensive.
When I was back home a week ago in Cleveland my brother's rates were substantially cheaper but that's Cleveland vs Boston but still.
Oh and for context we heat with gas via radiators on top of a gas water heater and gas stove.
Some of you keep it toasty.. 65 is my "home" temp, 60 at night or away.
Same, my home temp is 65/66 and 58 overnight and I still scowl when I get my gas bill.
64 is my toasty. It goes down to 59 at night.
Big, old condo that I will be putting insulation in slowly over the next few years.
that will freeze my butt off >.< i sleep at 70...
64 day, 60 at night. I forgot to put the heat down to 60 at night the other day and it was so uncomfortably hot. Idk how people sleep in that temperature regularly.
I'd keep it colder at night but we have baseboard in our attic. It looks like it was finished at one point probably 50 years ago but since then it's just become a regular attic with minimal insulation. I don't want it getting too cold and having the pipes freeze. Also like I said, my house is super drafty haha.
I've always thought about getting a smart thermostat but I'm reluctant to get anything that I can't take with me when I move out. Is it fairly trivial to pop off the old one, install the Nest, then do the swap again when you move? No chance of breaking the old one and being forced to replace it, or the Nest not working properly with an ancient heating setup? My apartment building dates back to the 1850s, I believe. Hot water baseboard heat, probably dates back to the 60s? Maybe 50s?
I'd love to have more automation on my temps. I also wish I had zone control cause every room in my apartment is somehow 5 degrees off from the other, with the bathroom regularly being about 50 in the winter, but that would require an entirely new heating system.
Mass save routinely runs 10-20 dollar deals on smart thermostats.
Also moved two apartments with my nest. Just remember to take photos before and after installation of where the wiring goes
Even if you have an old mercury switch thermostat, it's still really easy to swap. And if you break the old thermostat, they're really cheap. I kept my old one and it's just sitting in the pantry in a box with the locks in switched out for August Locks, and the original door bell I swapped lol.
You can't make zone control where it doesn't already exist without a bunch of work that your landlord would absolutely need to handle. But Nest has wireless temp sensors you can put in a room and I believe set your temp off that specific sensor.
If your landlord isn't garbage they'd likely do it for you. Mine offered but I didn't want to waste his time.
This is like comparing gasoline prices. If you've got a giant truck with a huge tank, your cost will be more than a compact with a small tank. Both of them pay the same $3.30 per gallon at the gas station.
Same thing, but you're comparing homes with different insulation, different heating systems, different windows' exposure to different winds, different thermostat settings & schedules. Which is not much of a comparison at all & doesn't tell you anything useful.
This is not "crowd sourcing a fair rate", the rates are all set in stone for everyone. Neither you nor anyone else is getting fleeced. Hopefully this spurs you & everyone else to take the measures you're willing & able to take in order to use less.
Comparing the usage when you don't have a record of the seasonal usage is helpful though. If it's a warm month, then everyone's bills are low, and vice versa.
Not really. "Warm" is pretty subjective & varies by all the factors I outlined.
My bill is lower than in the past because I learned about the rate spike ahead of time & used less, but I still pay the same rate as everyone else.
"Warm weather" is not subjective. You can look at the National Weather Service website and get objective measurements of it.
Everyone in the same area gets pretty much the same weather, same outside temperatures, etc. Heating costs vary directly with outside air temperature for everyone, although by somewhat different amounts due to insulation, window treatments, etc.
If the weather causes my heating fuel usage to go up by 30% one month, it's very likely that yours will also go up by 20-40% for that month.
"Warm weather" isn't what causes you to use more gas, you deciding to keep your thermostat at whatever level you choose is what causes you to use more gas.
I can, & do, turn mine down, & therefore I use less - regardless of what the weather is.
Warm weather causes you to use less gas. The gas requirements to keep a house at any particular set temperature is proportional to the difference between the set temperature and the outside temperature.
Apparently warm weather causes you to use less gas. Do you understand that you can put a sweater on instead of turning the thermostat up? Like, it is an actual option that people choose?
That's nothing to do with the fact that you use less gas in warm weather than cold weather.
Whatever you or I set our thermostats to, whether or not you or I wear a sweater, we will use less gas if the outside temperature is higher and more if it is colder.
The amount of power to maintain a temperature in a house is proportional to the temperature difference between inside and outside.
Eversource prints the AVG daily temperature in the monthly usage stats because it helps explain usage numbers.
It's even harder to compare than gasoline prices though. Everyone might have a different supplier of gas, or even a different source of fuel. The OP's bill is for natural gas from National Grid from the looks of it, but other folks may have Eversource as their supplier. Some people might not even use natural gas and may get oil heat, and some might not even use gas at all so they'll chime in with their crazy high electric bills but that's even more insane to compare since every town gets a different rate agreement with the power company.
And then to go a step further with your pickup truck vs compact car example, some people may drive vastly differently than others! I may drive my pickup truck at exactly 55mph on the highway, while you're off going 90mph and rolling coal at every stop light in town. My gas tank will go a lot further than yours. Just like my heating bill will be cheaper than yours if I set my heat to 60° F and you set yours to 70° F.
And in addition to all of this, we all have vastly different insulation in our housing units. So even if I have the same pickup truck as you do, my engine might be really poorly maintained and so I'll blow through diesel fuel while you're running on eco mode with a fresh oil change and tires rotated last week.
I've tried to compare heating bills to others and it just brews confusion and frustration. The only comparison worth looking at is year over year changes. Make sure you're using the least energy you can to keep the house as comfortable as you can afford. If it's widely different from year to year maybe call your landlord and ask them to service your heating system, or suck it up, or try to move to a move efficient house/apartment. Really little you can do besides turning your thermostat down as far as you can bare. Easier said than done though.
It is like comparing gasoline prices. I'm paying $3.30, I want to know if a different supplier down the road is charging $1.50
If only someone could have seen this coming
Spoiler: No more cheap gas. And to save you some time next fall, it's not gonna be cheaper then either.
Well I'll be dipped in shit. I assumed I could shop natural gas like I could electricity.
Still frustrating that the Midwest is so much cheaper, like 40% cheaper
It's not like National Grid or Eversource or whoever is pumping it out of the ground here & charging whatever they want. They pay their suppliers for it & those increased costs get passed down to us.
I happened to be visiting MN last summer on the day that Excel published their electricity rate increases for this winter in the Star-Tribune in the tiniest font possible, they're getting a big rate increase there too.
The good news is that the two easiest things you can do - turning down the heat & wearing more layers - cost you absolutely nothing. The OK news is that ditching gas & the grid with battery+solar is a little easier & cheaper than it used to be, but it'll take a bit before it pays for itself. The best news of all is that you don't live in Texas.
Amen! That's where we were the last 9 years. Power cuts because it got below 20 was a joke
$94 for 37 therms, 1200sq foot with Navien gas heat/water.
Townhouse configuration with good insulation, which helps a lot.
I can second this as mine is similar
... only a $0.38 credit for a paperless bill? That's less than the price of the STAMP to send you a paper bill ...!!!
I'd be curious to see if there is a difference between on time payments and late payments between paper or online billing. I know I've paid my utility bill late due to plain old forgot about it. Perhaps they account for that a bit.
Electronic billing has some cost, even if it is cheaper than posting out paper bills
To send out a paper bill, you need:
...
To send an electronic bill, you need:
If the discount for declining a paper bill is less than the postage to send it to you, the company is ripping you off. Period.
I'm sure they get a bulk discount and likely presort so it's cheaper for them.
One machine handles all of those steps in the mailing process. (Well multiple machines because of the volume). But the interface that connects them to the computer system also handles things like posting them in electronic format. Both systems are there and running whether you use them or not.
And they don't pay for stamps. They get a primo bulk rate that is probably cheaper than the bulk non-profit rate (which is something like $0.14)
Clearly you don't understand the cost of running a customer facing website, with customer service, IT development, IT operations, etc.
The bills are not sent out by email, they are on a secured website, with live customer support, etc.
That customer-facing website will exist regardless of whether the customer gets their bill in paper form or not.
Not with the same feature set, it won't. If everyone got paper bills, they wouldn't need the billing section of the website. More customers using the online billing system means more load on website customer services.
Billing needs secure online payments, secure PII storage, a customer facing billing system, and a bunch of other things that a website without billing doesn't need.
>everyone
That's a silly, nonsense argument.
Plus, if you want to bring tech support into it?
Paper billing needs mechanics to fix all those machines. Warehousing for the paper & ink, and staff to handle shipping and internal deliveries. A mail room - and staff - to handle the outgoing mail.
I still say, if a company offers a discount for paperless billing that is less than the cost of a measly fucking stamp, then they're ripping their customers off.
Why do you think they use stamps to send out paper bills?
USPS offers bulk rates.
99 Therms for the month to January 18th, $226.
This is on a 1400 Sq ft single family, 25 miles west of Boston (and so a little colder in January), from Eversource. Gas heat plus heatpump when the outside air temp is above 40f, gas stove and oven, gas hot water. At least one person working from home full time.
Supply charge:
$1.03778/therm
Distribution charges:
Customer charge $10
Distribution $0.60788/therm
Revenue decoupling $0.06848/therm
Distribution adjustment $0.46848/therm
I have always opted for the balanced billing, so I pay about $155 every month. Except for when the big one comes around March every year it’s about $400-$600. I suspect this year that one is going to be a lot more. But I know it’s coming. I hate being cold in my house, so I budget for a high gas bill.
I know this doesn't answer your question, but hopes it make you feel better.
I currently live in San Diego (used to live in Boston) and we currently pay $500/mo for gas + electric. We don't even run the heat, that's just hot water, dryer and electronics. Everywhere is getting insanely expensive.
That 38 cents savings is pretty awesome though, what an incentive.
You are like a perfect comp for us, pretty much the same size house but built in the 40s and oldish windows so that may be my issue in addition to old boilers...
My number 1 advice on drafty windows. Break out the hair dryer and get the plastic to seal all windows. It will save you $$$$! Well worth it.
yea thats what my friend does, she seals all her window and buy these things that she put under her door to block draft.
I’m in a 1,000sf condo and paid $1,014 last month. Temp is set at 68 most of the time. What?!?!?
Adding that I work from home, and kid and I are both skinny and get cold easily. Still completely insane to me.
that's crazy..... is the condo really old? (older places have bad insulation and windows). I live in a 2400sf condo my heat and electric is only 150 together and my temp is set at 70-71... condos are generally very insulating no? cause the hallways are heated..
68° F is a really high thermostat setting. Setting it to 65° F would probably result in a $100 drop, minimum. If you could survive 60° F overnight and 64° F during the day you'd probably get into the $700 range.
Something sounds pretty off with your system or insulation though, since a modern energy efficient setup with proper insulation and windows/doors shouldn't cost more than $500 to hear a unit of that size to that high a temp. I'd probably look into Mass Save programs to bump up your insulation, fix drafts, maybe purchase a heat pump, etc. Assuming you own the condo that is.
Your rate is similar to ours. We used 135 therms to heat 1900 sqft during that same period. We have a new tankless boiler and recently had the whole place spray foam insulated.
That paperless bill credit though 😆
3600 sq ft 1700s colonial. use next to nothing, we have a pellet stove, and keep heat in bedrooms at 56 overnight. Has a 2 hour warm up period.
Just dropped $1020 on an oil delivery, will get me through until mid March.
$76. I used 29 therms. ~750 sq ft apartment. I keep my place in the high 60s. I have a gas stove and gas water heater. Honestly not sure how the heat works… my electricity bill is pretty steady throughout the months when I don’t have AC on, so I assume it’s gas heat.
That's very little. It's possible that your heat is included in your rent as it is shared by the building, for example a boiler in the basement.
I’m no handy man, but based on my googling I think the combi boiler in my closet provides both heat and hot water to my unit only. My place is on the newer side so, for instance, I lose very little heat through my windows. It may just be better insulated in general compared to older units.
How large is the building you're in? A multi unit building with proper insulation is definitely possible to be that efficient. Proper insulation, plus sharing walls/floors with other units gives you more heat for free/less heat loss to the outside.
Even a modern SFH with good insulation can be pretty cheap to heat if insulation is good and the windows / doors aren't drafty. Most of us just have early 1900s units that weren't updated properly or at all in some cases. Mass Save like programs should really do more to encourage landlords to upgrade.
A few dozen units. I have two exterior walls and am on the ground floor so I'm sure other units are even more insulated than mine.
I live in a 3,300 sqft house with cathedral ceilings. Last month I paid 926.37. I wanted to puke
Dude/Duddet, something is off. Our house a little bigger, but we only used about 225 therms last month. Under $500
insulation and newer windows really change things.
Yeah I have A LOT of windows and french doors that are glass. They are all old, seals are broken because the glass is cloudy, drafts everywhere....it's rough. Too much money to replace them, so I do temp fixes. But the ceilings at their peak are 20', so it's a lot of volume with a lot of thermal loas
3,300sqft in Boston?! Where the fuck?
About 12 Mike's outside Boston, just wanted to comment because national grid made me want to puke
Oh ok, that makes a lot more sense. The costs are effecting everyone - my coworkers in NH are getting like $600 gas bills.
....I don't know how long a Mike is, but I'm guessing 5,280 feet
1300 sq ft first floor condo that was completely redone with insulation etc. in 2012. Gas stove and tankless gas hot water heater. I put in a Sensi thermostat that I got on a Black Friday MassSave sale for like $10 or $20 - there was no C wire so couldn't put in one of the fancier ones. At night and most of the day it's set at 62, in the morning and evening it's 70.
My January bill was for 61 therms, came to around $153 (same rates as your bill).
Last bill was $340 and change. 3 BR single family house, ~1800 sq feet.
Okay not a Boston resident but is there anyone who can explain a "therm"? Is it a measure of heat/ energy? Is it because it would be hard to temperature adjust a volume reader? Just weird cuz normally gas is measured in volume when you have tanks, I've never had gas lines
Natural gas isn’t a single consistent mix of molecules like propane, it’s a mix of hydrocarbons and some suppliers have mixes that produce more heat than others, so that’s more valuable. A therm is about 100k BTU, so whatever amount of the gas you’re getting produces that much heat, is a therm of gas.
But, roughly, it’s about 100 cubic feet of natural gas to 1 therm.
The Gas Supply Charge on the December bill for my Condo building (4 unit condo) was 1.03880. Read the fine print and starting December 1st the charge is the same as yours .9870 per therm.
I have to buy kerosene. I'm getting a delivery Friday.
$7.59 a gallon with a 100 gal minimum. No fuel assistance for me, I make too much. Good Neighbor Energy has also apparently ran out, I tried with them too.
I seriously might have to move.
That’s just what gas costs up here these days, mostly because of supply issues and the fact that it’s also our main source of electricity. 216 therms is a lot though: unless you have a really big home or keep it really warm, I’d get an energy audit. If you’re renting, there’s not really much that you can do, besides maybe those shrink-wrap window covers.
[deleted]
$250
It might be more useful to call your utility and ask for prior therm consumption before you lived there. National Grid told me how many therms the prior owners used for every month of the previous year when I asked, giving me a good baseline of what to expect.
I'm on balanced billing so I'm paying $200 something every month forever
1100 sq ft. Used 20 therms. $58
I don’t have gas anymore but last winter February was my most expensive, used 11 therms and paid $27.07
~1800 sq ft, 3 floors + finished basement single family home
$197 (82 therms)
Nest thermostat set to 68 almost all of the time (65 when it detects we are away, but most roomies work from home)
includes gas for cooking and hot water heater
Damn, newer build? Newer water heaters? I'm old and old over here and am sure that's the issue.
1900s! But I did just replace the water heater last spring. I need to replace the HVAC at some point because it’s over 20 years old…
75 therms, $181.96. 2400 sqf SFH. Night temp 58, day temp 62. Gas for heating, hot water, and cooking. Two persons, and we often shower after working out at gym
$329.25 for 141 therms. We have gas heat and hot water for a 1400 Sq ft condo.
[deleted]
DeffNotTom t1_j5u8fgr wrote
That seems right given the rate hikes this year. You're also using a good amount of gas. How big is your place?
My Nest thermostat has really saved my ass this winter. 2 bedroom apartment, two floors. Drafty old windows in a 110 year old apartment. I only used 85 therms in December. Thermostat sets to 65° at night, pre-heats the apartment a bit for morning when I'm getting ready for work, then back to 65° until a little bit before I get home from work. It's pretty great. If it's exceptionally cold outside the thermostat turns on the heat earlier to try and keep it in an eco friendly range.highly recommend getting one of these if you're trying to keep your bills under control. Super easy install that I did myself. Let my landlord know, but honestly, you don't have to if they're a dickhead.