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hotaspee t1_ix91bol wrote

no.

source: my decades of living here.

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boston_acc t1_ix9f5il wrote

Across all those years, I genuinely what their “conversion rate” is. How many people have actually said “you know what, I think I’m called to be a Jehovah’s Witness. Time to turn down a blood transfusion if I ever need it!”

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Reasonable_Move9518 t1_ix9g1lm wrote

Lifetime average is certainly greater than 1. Otherwise the number of witnesses would decline over time. Even if it is slightly greater than 1... the religion spreads exponentially.

Spread of religions (and other social movements more broadly) follow viral dynamics: if the avg number of converts is greater than the average number of of believers, the religion or movement grows exponentially. If it is less than 1, it decays exponentially. If it is exactly 1, it remains the same size.

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boston_acc t1_ix9hrh3 wrote

Yeah, unfortunately memetics doesn’t work in our favor here. Religions that have ideas condoning spreadability and “till I die”-adherence are the ones that will climb highest in the race for frequency (I could’ve phrased that better but yeah).

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Reasonable_Move9518 t1_ix9lat9 wrote

Also add in religions that favor high birthrates...

I think Dune got it right... the far future of humanity will be more religious not less, due to "spreadability", fervency, and higher birthrates in religious vs. secular communities.

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boston_acc t1_ixa17mb wrote

At least once a population becomes embedded in secularism, it’s exceedingly hard to revert back. Maybe not governmentally (see Iran 1979) but for the population itself. I don’t think we’ve seen an example of that in history (not least because widespread secularism is new) but I could be wrong. Religion needs parents to propagate down the generations, so once you cut that off, it withers and withers. Most religions throughout history have not a trace left.

Anyway that’s just my philosophical rambling.

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THE_Killa_Vanilla t1_ixcs056 wrote

Agree with a lot of what you said here, but I think we need to re-evaluate our idea of what "religion" in modern society.

Simplify religion to a "shared set of core beliefs + principles by a group that reinforces a specific view of the world", shift the focus from theism to cultural homogeny, and you can see the "new religions" forming. We see it on both the right and left, think MAGA/Trumpism or "woke"/anti-racist cultures.

There are tons of similarities between conventional religion and these new cultural belief systems. Religion isn't dying, it's just transforming. At the end of the day people still need a framework to view the world and make sense of things.

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superiority t1_ixdqsa3 wrote

>Lifetime average is certainly greater than 1. Otherwise the number of witnesses would decline over time.

That doesn't follow. Conversion is not the only way to make new Witnesses. Some people are raised in the religion.

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Essarray t1_ixbfv7k wrote

They've closed and sold a few meeting places ("Kingdom Halls") over the past few years. I'm pretty sure their developed country numbers are shrinking although overall numbers might be on the up in places with spotty or no internet.

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MassBuildings t1_ixcrcvg wrote

I've heard that the point isn't conversions, it's to put members in an intentionally uncomfortable place with "outsiders" who are probably going to be rude or at least dismissive. It makes everyone outside their group seem hostile, and then you come back to your community and everyone likes you and praises the hard work you're doing (even though it doesn't actually accomplish anything).

I have no idea if anyone actually put any thought in to it like that. But it certainly seems like a reason why it would be worth continuing.

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jWalkerFTW OP t1_ix92m7f wrote

I’ve lived here equally as long and have seen them, but never to this extreme level

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hotaspee t1_ix93mgt wrote

fair enough, I just ignore them. if you really want to bug them you can ask them why they’re recruiting if there are only 144,000 spots in heaven and there’s 8.5m witnesses

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_rabidturtle t1_ix95rnb wrote

That's not really a 'gotcha' for them though. They believe most people will be resurrected on a 'paradise Earth' after Armageddon.

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parsley_animal t1_ix9gjrb wrote

Yeah lol I think the 150k spots are for the "executive" level of heaven that basically gets to run the goings on of paradise-earth after the apocalypse. But I think there's eventually an apocalypse sequel and the rest go to heaven or, if they don't do good with the new paradise earth, they all go to hell

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Essarray t1_ixa1fwi wrote

They don't believe in hell or a traditional afterlife. When you die you stay dead until it's time for God to resurrect you. At that time the meek shall inherit the earth and all the wicked non-believers get killed off. The 144k act as judges. Source: I grew up in said cult.

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jWalkerFTW OP t1_ix946kw wrote

Lmao. They don’t necessarily bother me, since all they do is stand there. But I have a close friend who’s JW family has only strengthened my position that they are a terrible, terrible cult

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purplegreenway t1_ixaemq3 wrote

Yes, this is what blows my mind. Maybe I'm selfish but my thought process would be, what if the person I recruit takes my spot?

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identicaltheft t1_ixaosvw wrote

JWs know if they are going to heaven or not. It's 144k over all time and the rapture happens when the last person of that 144k dies. Most JWs firmly believe they aren't going to heaven and they are going to be reborn onto heaven on Earth.

How did they "know" if they are one of the chosen? Fuck if I know. Heaven vibes or something.

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MindMugging t1_ix9hpyo wrote

That’s going to a pretty epic hunger game at the end of time.

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itsonlyastrongbuzz t1_ix9jkew wrote

Current Weather in Boston:

Temperate: 39°F

Humidity: 36%

UV Index: Low

Jehovah Level: Extreme

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