itsonlyastrongbuzz t1_iuia1yk wrote
Reply to comment by Nobiting in New England Utility Urges Biden to Declare Emergency to Avoid Fuel Shortage by Nobiting
>To add: It's absolutely insane it is illegal to fill a ship with LNG in Texas and sail it up to Boston Harbor. It has to be rail or pipeline by law.
It’s not illegal to ship LNG, it’s just that there are no American flagged vessels who can do it.
Only American flagged vessels can trade between America ports, which was meant to keep the shipping industry alive in order for us to be able to raise a navy.
This was decades before the military industrial complex created a mind boggling defense industry of shipbuilders that do nothing but build warships.
Since basically all LNG transporters are foreign, we cannot buy American fuel from an American port and transport it here.
We have to buy it internationally, from further away, and compete with international buyers who are in turn, squeezed by Russia.
Repealing the Jones Act would allow foreign ships to bring us domestic natural gas, and would allow foreign (cheaper) ships to operate between Puerto and the Continental US, driving the cost of everything down significantly, and opening them to more trade.
_____A_Username_____ t1_iuinl8p wrote
> American flagged vessels
The ship also has to be built in the U.S., which there are no such LNG ships in existence.
gnimsh t1_iuj9wc1 wrote
So like, build the ships here and staff them with Americans? can't we do that? Or would that only be profitable half the year so we won't?
TywinShitsGold t1_iujmwq4 wrote
Takes too long to pay the investment off if LNG is scheduled to be decommissioned.
Now if we could get Cuomo and the NY establishment to stop being an absolute dick about pipelines, we could plug into the “western” US pipeline supply and compete with the “rest” of the country on LNG price. Except he won’t let new pipelines cross NY, so New England is stuck shipping the stuff.
Because pipelines are apparently not green enough (because they pipe LNG), but shipping it around the world and back is the right answer (because we need it).
_____A_Username_____ t1_iujrc8c wrote
True but let's acknowledge that people in Mass are blocking gas lines to NH and Maine for pretty much the same NIMBY reasons of "don't help me none".
The feds should have stepped in long ago, but they don't usually do shit until there's a crisis at which point it's too late. Well, come February, we might just have that crisis opportunity.
gnimsh t1_iuk81ip wrote
Ok but psa cuomo is no longer ny governor.
Nobiting OP t1_iuia7b0 wrote
That makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the clarification!
ReferenceAny4836 t1_iuin1r1 wrote
Jesus Christ. It's worse than I thought. I thought it was insane that we were exporting LNG to Europe without right of first refusal for Americans. But it turns out, we're not even allowed to buy American LNG in the first place? For fuck's sake.
dtmfadvice t1_iuir98m wrote
This may be repeating someone above but - the Jones Act requires that shipping stuff by sea between US ports must be done on US-made, US-flagged boats. There aren't many of those boats for any kind of cargo, but there are none at all that can carry LNG. So, it's legal to ship... just not legal to ship in any sensible or cost-effective way.
This has been a huge problem for Puerto Rico for ages because it makes EVERYTHING there a lot more expensive. But it's a giveaway to a couple of important donors and lobbyists, so, you know, fuck them kids. They don't have a congressman to bribe, so who gives a fuck?
SkiingAway t1_iuivb1e wrote
Eh, it's a minor footnote in PR's many issues, not really the cause of them.
Hawaii is more than twice as far from CA.
itsonlyastrongbuzz t1_iujk3er wrote
>Hawaii is more than twice as far from CA
Sort of making the argument that PR would benefit tremendously from Jones Act repeal, as it’s far closer to American ports?
ZzeroBeat t1_iuiftbv wrote
so why hasnt it been repealed yet? seems like an ancient law that doesnt benefit anyone anymore. other than LNG distributors i guess
TotallyErratic t1_iuih0zy wrote
I imagine trade group that owns american flagged vessel who has a monopoly on shipping between US ports?
gallaj0 t1_iuimy7d wrote
politicians in states with US shipyards love the Jones act; unless they can get a military contract, it's the only thing keeping those yards alive.
quintus_horatius t1_iuirdwl wrote
It doesn't seem to be helping much, there are hardly any.
SkiingAway t1_iuiuuw1 wrote
It keeps the very small amount of non-military US shipbuilding/shipping left alive. Whether or not you feel that's worthwhile is up to you, but that's the function.
In the event of more serious world issues, being unable to supply our non-contiguous territories with our own fleet is potentially a pretty significant national security issue.
[deleted] t1_iuj7osx wrote
[deleted]
SkiingAway t1_iuj9k84 wrote
Uh, yes. You're trying to be sarcastic, but that's basically 100% accurate.
The US commercial shipbuilding industry is pretty much entirely dead outside of that. We build about zero ships of any substantial size other than the shipbuilding that's protected/subsidized by the military + the couple dozen Jones Act ships.
If it isn't built here for purposes of complying with either military or Jones Act rules....it isn't built here, ever.
World shipbuilding is ~49% China, ~39% South Korea, ~9% Japan, and the entire rest of the planet is basically a rounding error with 3-4% total market share.
ZzeroBeat t1_iujfsuo wrote
so it sounds like its not really working as intended anyways. might as well just open it up and help reduce energy prices. i don't see how holding back on that is worth the thousands or whatever it is of shipbuilders that may or may not exist.
SplyBox t1_iujqe7s wrote
Because the US government doesn’t like killing any amount of US jobs if it can help it
[deleted] t1_iuim1wv wrote
[deleted]
dante662 t1_iuj858c wrote
It's not just flagged American vessels. They have to be built here, financed here, and crewed by Americans as well.
​
The Jones act is the peak of idiocy and proof that governments don't understand the basics of economics.
Nobel6skull t1_iujkqn4 wrote
American naval shipbuilding is in a disgraceful state. We should be inventing in Naval and merchant shipbuilding in America instead of just shrugging and letting it all go.
Viewing a single comment thread. View all comments