psyrag OP t1_jad42ua wrote on February 28, 2023 at 4:03 PM

Reply to comment by purplepineapple21 in Is this normal? Agent asking for $3,455 brokers fee before signing lease by psyrag

most of the ones ive seen online/in person have an application fee though. is it legal in MA to have an application fee but it just has to be refundable?

i'm also a current undergrad student- could that factor into them wanting such a high amount upfront since there are probably 20 other students fighting for the same place?

purplepineapple21 t1_jad52uz wrote on February 28, 2023 at 4:10 PM

It's perfectly normal to require such a high amount upfront regardless of being a student or not. But "up front" means at the time of signing the lease or just before. It is not normal at all to be asked for rent & brokers fees before they even look at your application.

I'm not sure about the exact laws on application fees, but reputable landlords tend not to use them. It is definitely illegal for them to charge you a fee that they would keep even if you don't get the apartment. I'm not sure if it's okay for them to charge a fee if they would refund it if you don't get the place. Regardless, if every place you're looking at has an application fee (NOT a brokers fee--those are different, much more common and legal), you're probably not looking in the best places. A lot of online listings with application fees are scams.

psyrag OP t1_jad6gxn wrote on February 28, 2023 at 4:19 PM

Ok, that makes sense. I thought it was strange to have to pay the brokers fee before signing the lease...

As for the listings and application fees, I feel like it's normal for housing available to students to ask for application fees... Maybe this isn't the case for apartments that do not allow students, but all my friends who have already moved off campus have paid application fees of ~$50.

Thanks for the info!

Mountain_Resolve1407 t1_jad93ee wrote on February 28, 2023 at 4:36 PM

My understanding is brokers can charge app fees but landlords can’t. Could be wrong though

Master_Dogs t1_jae264a wrote on February 28, 2023 at 7:39 PM

> Ok, that makes sense. I thought it was strange to have to pay the brokers fee before signing the lease...

It's uncommon, but allowed. I would:

verify the agent is who they say they are
verify they actually work for the given agency
verify they want the check written out to the agency and not themselves
decide if you're willing to risk $80/person, or if you want to push back on those fees. you can negotiate, but if you do so, you may lose out on the apartment. flexibility is unfortunately required in this market. discuss with your roommate(s) on what you folks feel comfortable with.

> As for the listings and application fees, I feel like it's normal for housing available to students to ask for application fees... Maybe this isn't the case for apartments that do not allow students, but all my friends who have already moved off campus have paid application fees of ~$50.

Within MA you should be aware that application fees charged by a landlord are illegal.

Brokers can however charge them. I'd still say it's fairly uncommon in my experience to see them actually charge you for that. Typically they just lump it into the broker fee, since it's already $2000+ anyway and additional charges for $50/person or whatever just adds more paperwork for the broker to deal with.

It may be more common for students working with a real estate agent to pay these fees though. You guys have less credit, less or no income, and are typically higher risk due to being young and all. It may make sense for brokers to charge these fees in order to cover their asses or because landlords in college areas have higher standards and want to know the person renting from them has jumped through enough hoops to make it less "risky" for them.

Ultimately it's up to you whether you pay the fee or not. You can negotiate or find another broker who isn't charging these fees. You could also negotiate that the upfront payment only be required if your application is accepted first. Really depends on what you're comfortable with. As long as you've verified they're a legit broker, it's unlikely they run off with your money. It may be tied up for a bit though, so you should be fairly serious about this apartment and leave plenty of time to find other options if this one falls through.

Good luck! 🤞

purplepineapple21 t1_jad94bg wrote on February 28, 2023 at 4:36 PM

It's not normal. I'm sorry but you guys must be looking at predatory management companies that take advantage of students who don't know about the rental market. I rented as a student in the area and never paid an "application fee," and I know many people who were students after me and also didn't have these fees. But we were looking at crappy apartments in triple deckers and stuff, not corporate-managed buildings that advertise to students.

Master_Dogs t1_jae0gmp wrote on February 28, 2023 at 7:29 PM

> most of the ones ive seen online/in person have an application fee though. is it legal in MA to have an application fee but it just has to be refundable? > >

Illegal for landlords to charge this. See:

Payments at the start of tenancy - from The Attorney General's Guide to Landlord and Tenant Right
How Much Can a Landlord Charge - from MassLegalHelp

Not illegal for brokers - see the State regulations on this: 254 CMR 7.00: Apartment Rentals

> i'm also a current undergrad student- could that factor into them wanting such a high amount upfront since there are probably 20 other students fighting for the same place?

Yes. They want to weed out any student who might trash the place. That is likely why they want both an app fee and a "cosigner fee". I'm also assuming you're renting a large unit for $3,455/month in a desirable neighborhood near a major college. Broker fees are typically 1 month's rent, but they can vary since the legal regulations on them are light thanks to real estate lobbying. I'm assuming you're renting at least a 2 bedroom unit, perhaps 3 or 4 even with at least a few other people. In which case it's pretty typical for the landlord to want as much money upfront as possible plus to use a broker to deal with the logistics of showing the place and vetting applicants.

Note that under MA Law the landlord themself can further ask for these upfront payments:

The first month’s rent
A security deposit (which can not be more than one month's rent) to cover the cost of any damage to the apartment beyond normal wear and tear
The last month's rent (the month that will turn out to be the tenant’s last one in the apartment, not necessarily the last month on the lease)
The cost of a new lock and key for the apartment

You should be prepared to fork over upwards of 4 months rent upfront to the landlord/broker combined. Usually 1 month to the agent/broker and upwards of 3 months to the landlord to cover security deposit, first month's rent and last month's rent. Yes, this will be a shit ton of money. Make sure you have checks and the money ready to go if you're serious about this apartment. Get your roommates on the same page too, or have 1 person pay and everyone else Venmo/PayPal/whatever that person. YMMV based on the given agent and landlord and how many different checks they're willing to deal with. If you want to secure the place, you should be fairly flexible. That or keep looking until you find a landlord willing to do whatever you want.