There is no meaning beyond the surface level, it’s not that deep.

EDIT: wrong story nevermind 😵😵😵

Maybe the music chapters are little reminders that the shell/facade of a man still feels?

I personally just took it as an extension of his obsession with the way he is perceived by others. Music is one thing he can invest in that adds to the facade he's cultivating. Not to mention the artists he talks about are all famous at the time so maybe it's just him mirroring the rest of the USA's infatuation with celebrities.

Did you read the same book? It's not sonatas. It's pop. Are you thinking of Alex in A Clockwork Orange?

I agree

I haven't read the book but the movie I think helped illustrate the MC's fixation on popular materialism - the business cards and furnishings, the music....every thing in this guy's world is a prop of some sort that is a part of his fantasy.

In my opinion It's all just part of his mask of sanity, he's obsessively engaged in anything that hides his inner.self, like his morning routine, all part of keeping the mask up. It's also a way to keep victims at ease while preparing in the case of Paul Allen.

Agh no I just misremembered lol. My analysis is null and void.

I was going to say though in a world of brand names and materialism, music is one of the only truly genuine things so...it seems like killing and listening to music are the only things that make him feel truly alive.

Psychopathic as he is, he's unable to derive meaning and fufillment from benevolent or altruistic activites.

It’s shallow, commercial pop music. There’s nothing particularly deep or interesting enough to rant on for paragraphs about, that is if you’re someone who isn’t one of those alien yuppies, much like the design and texture of a business card.

Why would an author dedicate multiple chapters analyzing music if it meant nothing? It's not like it's a passing paragraph, there are several chapters.

> Because if his actions had a soundtrack, it would not be Mozart.

Funny you say that, cause when I hear Mozart I think of Hannibal murdering and eating people 🤣 but I know he is a totally different type of killer than Bateman

Could be, but in my opinion (which i haven't read it in a while) was always that music was the one thing that made him have a genuine feeling beyond trying to be #1 and better than everyone else.

Totally agree, he's a poser

You are correct, but imo the book highlights the music way more than the rest of it. Like it isn't uncommon for a dozen brand names to be mentioned on every page, but when it comes to music the author has multiple chapters that are literally only about the music and what Bateman thinks about it. It's similar but imo not the same vein as he sees the rest of consumer America.

This is true.

Maybe you're on to something about the "genuine" of music in a world of materialism.

Yeah, i see what you're saying but when it comes to consumerism he normally mentions a dozen brand names on a page, but the music gets entire chapters about what he thinks of them.

He has verrrry long takes on music and his casual mentions of multiple brand names for suits and stereos shows a stark contrast on the amount of time he spends analyzing the music

Very much a possibility. thanks for the response :)

Understood, I think I started to read the book an eon ago but my recollection is that the endless detailed analysis of pop music made it unreadable for me, I simply could not deal with pages of discussion about a Huey Lewis and the News tune. I think one of the things about the movie that struck me was the way scenes of his home were annotated like an IKEA catalog.

But his obsession with it is above everything else in his life, excluding murder. It may be superficial to us, but other than his murders, it's the only other "mainstream" consumer product that has entire chapters dedicated to him talking about it.

Not saying you're wrong, but always got a sense of something else being there for him when it came to this shit mainstream music

He has no idea how to interact normally with other human beings. So he came up with this scripted narrative about something he actually enjoys and spouts it off to anyone he can in an attempt to seem "normal" in their eyes. He's trying to act casual and get his potential victims to relax, but he can't hide his weirdness and the awkward stilted monologue sets off alarm bells, despite his best efforts.

The boy just ain't right.

He memorizes reviews to have something to talk about when he interacts with people.

All part of the mask.

To my memory, and it's been a while since I read it, it almost felt like him trying to be deeper than he really is? Like the things he talks about sound like they're directly pulled from reviews or magazine articles or interviews, and as mentioned, they're almost always talking about the most "commercial" album of whatever artist he's talking about. It's like he knows there's supposed to be something there, and it's something he's supposed to feel deeply, but all he can do is parrot what he's heard about the least challenging music available.

Damn really, it's just memorization of another's words???

I haven’t read it in forever, but I still remember both the book and the movie somewhat. I remember thinking they weren’t his actual opinions, but memorized critic reviews. I also seem to remember him narcissistically thinking Bono was singing directly to him?

That makes a lot of sense him trying to be deeper, but i wonder why he honed in on music to make him seem deeper? I would have assumed his obsession with consumer products would have been most important to be knowledgeable on, other than ending the apartheid ofc.

That's ehat someone else said! Him having memorized a real music critic's opinion is actually pretty mindblowing and makes complete sense.

According to others, his music chapters were literally him memorizing critic reviews to regurgitate them...

Oh that's right! It's been so long since I read this book.

Ever creepier. Like a robot trying to blend in.

He's a Psychopath. He's Glib. His choice of music are all hyper produced, shallow, just like him. His Huey Lewis bit is a lecture on conformity. They are him manufacturing himself by proxy - which is what psychopath's do. They have no identity of their own so they need to find and borrow/steal bits from other people's to make themselves real. Andrew Cunanan is a good RL example of this.

The music is a stable thing he can fix on and a material icon of success (Phil Collins' story in Genesis for example, sort of mirrors his own in his family).

I kind of figured it might be because he knows it's normal to have some kind of connection to music? Like he's got the clothes and consumer goods as a way to show off on material level, and then he can use the art he displays in his apartment and the music he seems to know a lot about to make himself seem cultured, but in a way that doesn't really take any reflection or real emotional connection on his part.

Or maybe he just does love commercial pop music and he goes on and on about it because it's the only thing he feels a connection to?

It means something of course. He likes music and is obsessed with surfaces. But it’s not that deep. Not being deep is the meaning.

I have not read this book but now I’m interested, is it any good?

> scenes of his home were annotated like an IKEA catalog.

Wasn't that Fight Club?

Haha entirely probable! Oops

I think it’s a combination of both these things; the only non-violent thing that really stirs any sort of response that’s remotely emotional is pop music that’s catchy, but only exists at surface level; it’s a reflection of him in a way. His charisma and image mirrors the catchiness of commercial pop music, but when you dig under the surface there’s nothing there, just a hollow emptiness. He can only engage emotionally with something that reflects his shallow pool of emotional triggers.

Patrick lives an extremely hollow life and i think those chapters are him taking the things he knows lots of regular people look up to and value and attempting to pull higher meaning out of them

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If you have seen the movie, yes.

If you have not seen the movie, YES.

It's in my top 3 stand alone novels of all time. I have reread it maybe 5-10 times over the past 15 years.

Any time I want to get back into reading I pickup one of three books: American Psycho, I Am Legend, or Fight Club. 3 of the greatest stand alone novels in my dumb opinion. The stories, prose, and subtlety is fucking genius. I love them with a burning passion.

My point was why dedicate multiple chapters to music? There are no entire chapters (iirc) dedicated to clothes, stereo equipment or evem restaurant reservations. When he talks about music, everything else seems to evaporate away, unlike the rest of his consumer bullshit. But apparently he was memorizing other music reviews and regurgitating them which makes way more sense in the fitting in terms.

The "what" is just as important as the "why" in this. Consider that he's isn't talking about the kind of music that hipsters of his day would discuss (Punk, New Wave etc), he's going on about the most middle-of-the-road, superficial, mass-market pop music. More or less the equivalent of using hard-core foodie terminology to discuss instant noodles in that he understands the form but none of the content. There's even a scene where somehow he gets tickets to see what I understand was meant to be U2 (before they went fully mass-market pop) and he doesn't get it at all, all he can talk about is the singers poor muscle tone and having to be around working-class people.

This might not be so immediately obvious to us now because there has been a trend in music criticism to take "disposable" pop more seriously and discuss it in the way that "serious" rock music writers did. But I think at the time of writing this would have read as much more jarring and as more evidence of Bateman's emptiness.

I like your take as well. thanks for the response !

I think its like in moby dick how many chapters are dedicated to long rants about whaling which seem boring but beneath the surface is a man taking the only greater power he can actually comprehend (whales/music) and using that to try and interpret the wider world. But because Patrick is only dedicating himself to pop music and surface level concerns he's never going to discover his sense of humanity.

Honestly, sometimes, I think authors just want characters to have fixations that they can derive character out of if they are obsessive and the obsession probably has more to do with the Authors actual brand of personal knowledge.

Like, William Gibson made his character in Pattern Recognition know clothing dramatically well....but I just think he personally had that specific obsession and used it because it didn't cost him time for research.

Try Mcarthy’s The Road next - it might fit your taste.

yes. the “Ikea Nesting Instinct.”

I thought it was to lull the reader into a spiral of boredom just before throwing you back into a super-mega-ultra-violent scene. It takes place in the MTV era as well as music magazines being pretty popular. Having an “intellectual” conversation about music in order to have one toe in mainstream pop culture seemed to fit the character for me. Bateman had obsessive compulsive behaviors which included hygiene, working out, music, and killing. The first three are pretty mundane, but the last one is so inhumane and absolutely intolerably extreme. It’s one book I’ve not wanted to read a second time. I haven’t seen the movie (except for a few scenes that end up on social media a lot) because I couldn’t see how a movie could possibly be made to be anything like the book yet still be watchable.

No one ever brings up the idea that the character is on the spectrum and desperate to pass for non-divergent.

I've only seen the film but that was my take too. He was reciting reviews in order to make himself look insightful and cultured.

I think music is the only thing he truly understands, he's confident and knowledgeable about every bit of music he listens to. It cements him in reality, even when his sanity is floating away into the void

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It is but very disturbing. I got half way through and thought it's not that disturbing... people must be soft. But God, by the end I was traumatised. Im glad I read it though. I think the movie was a great adaptation.

Yeah, it’s the same with how to wear a suit and who to tip at a salon, there are parts of the book where you hear other characters say the same thing verbatim, which is a hint towards the reveal at the end.

Worth knowing that Bret Easton Ellis has a podcast in which he mainly talks about and reviews movies, but music and books also feature. It's a real pleasure listening to someone as eloquent and knowledgable on pop culture as BEE.

So I think one reason he chose pop music is simply because it is something he is super familiar with and can easily write and talk about.

Maybe commercial pop music will ultimately turn you into a psychopath?

Of course, there's an album that he buys three times because he wants to have it on every format ... Which brings it back to materialism.

Fro me, the music chapters show how he has to over-analyse everything, deconstruct it and take it apart instead of just enjoying it. Look at the praise he dumps on Huey Lewis and the News ... All those superlatives! Is that a fair, honest, appropriate assessment?

(Aware of the irony of over-analysing the music chapters after what I've just written!)

Edit: They also give us the scene in the filmed version where he monologues about Genesis (?). Pure brilliance!

That business card scene in the film is magnificent. Simply magnificent.

>Damn really, it's just memorization of another's words???

He memorises Zagat restaurant reviews too if I recall correctly ...

Yeah it is the structure of Rolling Stone reviews or other magazines of that time, when the book appeared it was more evident because every review approached in a similar way. Bateman has learned to mimic that in order to appear more 'common' or 'friendly',

For me, it's a symptom of his obsessive behaviour. You can also see him trying to find meaning in the shallowest of things -comercial pop music- as a vindication of himself. Be defending shallow music he was implying there is more to him beneath his looks and attitude, which are also pretty shallow.

Of course, the music he defends so passionately HAS artistic value. Just not in the ways he thinks it does.

Sort of like all the brutal women killing is in the mind of the author. It was just a little too gleeful for me to think he wasn't enjoying it, too.

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That was my exact thoughts too. The only things there are entire chapters dedicated to are pop music and murder.

There is no fuckin way the foods he talks about are real lmao I always thought it was just an amalgamation of fancy sounding ingredients, because most of the things sound horrible

aw man, the film is one of the greatest ever made. His performance as Bateman was next level. Thanks tom cruise 🤣

That's awesome insight, thank you for providing that

lol this is the only take in this thread i 101% disagree with

Ah thr boring beofre the storm is interesting, because you are correct in that these chapters, now that I reread, I pretty much skim. I used to look for something deeper, but never could find anything

I remember reading that years ago, I'll reread and see how it is now that I'm older. Why would that one fit in with these three?

That's a super cool tske and a really good parallel

Cause he memorized someone elses review of it because he can't form his own opinion because everyone is the same and he desperately wants to be different.

Psychopaths don't have emotional reactions.
They don't value objects, and they don't obsess about details.

Neurodivergents on the other hand...

TIL I’m Bateman.

The music reviews perform two functions in the book.

1. They normally come directly after a gruesome murder and they provide the reader with a breather and change in tone.

2. They're probably the only places in the novel where Patrick shows genuine emotion or excitement. He kills pitilessly and without feeling. Music is the only place where he shows some passion, or his approximation of passion.

It’s all real.

peanut butter soup, yummy

It’s actually a west African dish.

https://inthekitch.net/peanut-butter-soup/

They are actual reviews. Most from rolling stone.

Honestly don't remember the actual foods - apart from when his fiance puts sushi on a plate to spell out his friend's initials - so they could have been made up. There's also a point where he becomes frustrated with it all and just says it's overpriced with almost nothing on the plate. :-)

But what was it? The topics on The Patty Winters Show become increasingly crazy ... Not even sure whether I picked them up when I read the book, but someone listed them here once.

I guess we're all a collection of other peoples opinions.

And it is delicious!

Also: There are a lot of actual wrong stuff in the music parts.

The problem is the music is shallow. Even the one thing he maybe likes is superficial pop music. It just adds to the profound shallowness of his character.

saved, I'm making it this week

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I remember laughing out loud at his mention of cherimoya sorbet and trying to explain to a friend why it was funny.

I guess you're right.

...

Damnit!

That's not the vibe I get, all I can see is him rambling on about music and his guests are uncomfortable or unimpressed at best, or laughing at him at worst, and then he lashes out. I think he cares about music.

Yeah, I guess we’re all a collection of other people’s opinions.

It really depends on your taste in literature. I personally enjoyed it but it certainly didn’t strike me as some kind of masterpiece, the praise for it is a bit overblown. If it wasn’t for the movie, I’m not even sure I would remember it today.

…Patrick, is that you?

Truly I am a part of all that has touched me.

Everyone who is writing that it’s part of Bateman’s masquerade is right - but what needs to be added to that explanation is how insanely detailed and verbose the music sections are. This was Easton Ellis’s real stroke of genius—he pushed this idea, like Bateman’s concern with fashion labels and fancy dining, to a comical extreme. This is what makes the book such a uniquely interesting (enjoyable wouldn’t be the right word) version of the “Diary of a Madman” genre and not just the dull equation of consumerism with psychosis. And now I’m remembering how hilariously composed and loquacious Bateman’s list of “Issues facing the world” is in the first chapter 😆. Everything Bateman does is hilariously over-verbose. Easton Ellis really found a unique artistic approach in this book.

Seconded. African food has some banger dishes. Peanut butter soup and goat curry all the way.

I don’t think they are actual reviews at all. Because he praises bands like Huey Lewis and the news with glowing terms, something you would not find in magazine reviews. I think he comes up with his own opinion in the style of a legit review but his musical taste is super shallow (Huey, Phil colons, whitney Houston)

Not true

I disagree, his opinions on the music are shallow, and often miss the point. To use Hip to Be Square, Patrick sees it as a song about conformity, about how it's better to fit in then be an individual or buck the status quo.

Huey Lewis wrote the song satirically, it's meant to make fun if "squares" as it comments are people losing what makes them unique. Patrick doesn't understand this though because like everything ss he can only understand the surface level interpretation

I'm on my first read through of American Psycho now. I'm about 2/3 of the way through.

Patrick's relationship with music is interesting. He gives by far his most detailed (although still artificial feeling) explanations when talking about music, and has his walkman with him throughout the day, even when it would not provide any social benefit. In contrast, he states openly that he does not like live music (he says so while organizing a date, and another time at the U2 concert).

My theory is that he avoids live music for two reasons, the first being practical: incase he needs to give an opinion on a specific performance, he would not have an already written review to rely on, and can't/won't come up with an interpretation of his own.

The second is more abstract, but I think there's something there: music might be the only thing left that can make Patrick feel. For example, during the concert he and Bono lock eyes, and it is a momentary but intense experience for Patrick. These moments of intense feeling may highlight to him his inability to feel in other areas of life, so he avoids them all together. By sticking with CDs, he can rely on reviewers to do the feeling for him, and avoid coming to terms with his own ability to feel.

...or maybe I'm just talking out my ass. Either way, his clear interest in music paired with his disinterest in live music is interesting to think about.

I always took it to be a dig at the reader, like you just burned through the most heinous murder scene that took 10 pages, and now you find reading about popular music for 4 pages a tedious ordeal.

Patrick Bateman's existence is incredibly mundane. Outside of appearances (clothes, physique, being seen at the best restaurants) nothing matters to him. There is absolutely no mention of family until close to the end (and these brief glimpses into his family give us a bit of insight as to how he ended up this way without really being a sole "reason" for his state). The people closest to him are as vapid as he is (probably moreso). And because of this, they pay absolutely no attention to what are very likely cries for help. A recurring theme in the book is the absolute conformity of his peer group --everyone wears wool suits, slicked back hair, and horn-rim glasses-- to the point that no one can tell anyone apart, which aids him in his ability to blend in and get away with the killings. It's a very well written commentary on the socio-cultural state of the time. Another interesting aspect to this book is Bateman's dissociative perspective in terms of his victims and personal attachments (if you can call them that), while he speaks passionately about pop music. He goes into tactile diatribes about Genesis, Whitney Houston, and Huey Lewis, but is emotionless when it comes to the murders and even attire (which he obsesses over). He speaks endlessly about clothes and designers, but even as he passes judgement on the attire of others and obsesses over his own, he does not seem to extract any joy from it. It's just something he does almost robotically. Pop music seems to be the only thing he actually enjoys, though even his reviews on the subject seem detached. Despite being descriptive to the point of being almost flowery, they are written in the passive voice.

EDIT: Sorry for the wall of text. I pulled this from my Goodreads review.

I have conflated this aspect of both these movies before, I think I first watched both about the same time and the obsession with the material world in each is kind of striking to me, combined with the way the movies concluded that left the viewer (in my case anyway) wondering what was real and what was only in the MC's heads.

It also shows you how desperate he is to be seen as knowledgeable and cool. However, those around him largely see him as irrelevant.

Could be. But just because he's interpreted the song wrong doesn't mean he can't have genuine feelings towards it.

I dunno. I just love talkin about books.

It’s been a while since I read it, but I think I felt like they were breathers between acts of extreme violence to let the reader get over a shock or relax before being hit with one.

According to othrr comments, they are memorized reviews of said songs. Additionally someone mentioned Ellis is a huge fan of pop music according to his podcast, so he may have written these out of a personal passion for music

...enough Reddit for today ! :')

Instead of memorizing music reviews, today’s Bateman might just memorize ChatGPT essays. Similarly hollow.