Submitted by whydoesyourbedsmell t3_10j604u in books
scarletseasmoke t1_j5kozzm wrote
Reply to comment by NekuraHitokage in Is it ethical to pirate books I already own if I just want an E version? by whydoesyourbedsmell
You could probably use some phone apps to make a digital "backup" pretty fast without even cutting the books. My guess is one payed app for easy high quality results or 2-3 free alternatives with a bit of extra effort. And those apps are important for accessibility until we have better solutions, because it's not however many years ago so we're not just telling disabled people they are SOOL.
Imo it's a very ethically grey area. So my vote is unethical for convenience, acceptable for accessibility if there's no better alternative (eg getting assistive devices like glasses).
NekuraHitokage t1_j5kphrs wrote
I don't think it's too grey. Personal use is acceptable. Redistribution is unethical.
I'd argue it to be more unethical to force someone to pay for the same thing twice just because the medium is different. Whther physical pages or digital text, the words don't change and the individual already paid for access to the words.
scarletseasmoke t1_j5kr1rq wrote
That's totally fair. But there's the person who has a book they want to read but needs a digital copy to do so, and then there's the person who seeks out the cheapest damaged copy of a book to exploit the backup copy laws of their country - if they download the same book from the same source for personal use the two of them both participate in redistribution the same way but it's not the same level of ethical.
NekuraHitokage t1_j5kutxf wrote
If we went full Minority Report we would have nothing. We cannot prevent the dishonest from being dishonest. We can only punish the dishonest after the fact. A dishinest person doesn't care about ethics. There are none. They do as they please and do anything to get what they desire. We cannot blanket out a simple binar ly switch of whether it is ethical or not. It is too nuanced. The billionaire that steals an apple os a criminal. The starving man that steals an apple is in dire need of help and cannot be blamed. Would he otherwise be condemned to death?
This is not as extreme, of course, but the same ideas can apply. The person who digs a copy out of the trash and goes "haha! Here's my access pass!" Is just as legitimate as the person who purchases it in my book... With some caveats...
The thing is, once that person throws away or sells their purchased copy, they have sood their access. It is the person who sold that tattered copy that now needs to be sure they have no further copies. If they do, they've now copied for redistribution. Doesn't matter that they're selling the original, they've still essentially stolen a copy by gaining access, making a copy, then revoking access while keeping the copy.
The vast majority will be honest.
Are we so worried about that one person costing an author the $15 they were never going to get from that person anyway that we would hover, paranoid, over the shoulder of every person that would want to follow the rules?
After all, in your scenario, they are buying a damaged, presumably used book... So the money doesn't go back to the author or the publisher anyway. It goes to the original purchaser who is now reselling something not meant for resale and making money off of someone else's work after they have already consumed it. If anything, selling the original after consumption and damage is now the unethical thing. At least the person that bought the ruined copy tried to pay for it! They did not steal it outright, they legitimately purchased a copy that the reseller valued at a lower dollar amount.
The vast majority are people like OP. They just want their own personal use copy. They have every means to make their own personal use copy. If someone else already did it the only ethical "break" perhaps is that they are using the shorter road instead of putting in the effort of copying it themselves.
And those two are not participating in redistribution. Only one would be on technicality because the one who purchased an illegible copy does not have that same ability to make their own copy. There it does become greyer, but only because it is indeed being downloaded from an outside source and is not a perfect copy of the exact book in their hands. They are aiding in someone else's redistribution, but their downloading it doesn't change if it was there or not. It was already redistributed illegally.
They have a full, readable copy and could copy it themselves. Thus, I feel it is ethically ok to download a copy that has already been digitalized since it is essentially a shortcut of something they could do themselves.
The person with an illegible book does not have this same ability and, thus, hits one of those caveats on ownership I was speaking of.
Ownership is becoming muddier by default these days anyway. With streaming, digital distribution and other such things it actually is the access you pay for. If I buy a book on Kindle, i have purchased the right to access that book on any Kindle device or App. I do not own any part of that book, even a physical copy... So if I print it for my own use, that is just... Access. Access that can actually be revoked at any time, unlike a physical copy.
The second I give a copy to someone else I break ethics.
whydoesyourbedsmell OP t1_j5mq3bp wrote
The issue of "what is owning something in the modern day?" Or "whether the second hand book market is ethical?" are not quite the issues I expected to come from this question. I suppose however, that the vast interconnectedness of the world, is part of what makes ethics fun to discuss in the first place.
Remembering to properly delete any digital copies if I ever give up, sell, lose, or otherwise damage the original book. Thus maintaining that as my "book access pass" is basically the take I've gotten from this?
Is it stealing to pirate a book, or is it abelist and classist to prevent someone who needs it, from getting the kind of book they need.(a bit of an exaggeration of those terms I know.) To have the right to a service, someone else must be obliged to provide it. If making and maintaining a book in brail is more labour intensive, then you should charge more to compensate the labourer. If being born blind makes books more expensive then isn't that injust?
I'd say it's both which is why I asked for further insight. I believe that authors should be properly compensated for their work, and that I shouldn't have to pay for secondary copies of books I already own to correct a health issue. These are conflicting beliefs and thus both buying E versions and pirating the books will cause cognitive dissonance.
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