Specialist-Throat924 t1_iwm1i93 wrote on November 16, 2022 at 5:17 PM

Reply to comment by MindlessRanger in Digital Books wear out faster than Physical Books - Internet Archive Blogs by koavf

I believe you got a bit hung up on the article's phrasing of "wear out". Nobody in the world (hyperbole) thinks that software or electronic files "wear out" the way physical objects do. The person you replied to didn't say that either. It's just a comparison, maybe not a very good one. You can't accuse the other poster for making nonsensical arguments and then go on to attack something they didn't even say.

Anyway, yes, currently, there are ways to access older software and files. You might need to spend some extra time finding a workaround, but there will be one.

But what about in 50 years? In 100 years? ...300 years? When nobody who ever cared about those games or that software is still alive? The older these systems get, the more we need enthusiasts who are willing to spend their time to keep them alive somehow. Generally the people who do still engage with it are people who have a nostalgic connection to the time when it was produced.

There are of course also major drawbacks to analog media, and format obsolescence is also one of them for most formats outside of books. There are many physical formats, both analog and digital, that may well become completely inaccessible in our lifetime. When the last MiniDisc player dies, existing MiniDiscs will never again be played, for example. This is an adjacent but different problem to that of obsolete file formats/software. I mean, we'll have computers in the future too. But I think it's just way to early in the computing age to conclude that we will be able to access the currently existing files and software forever.

MindlessRanger t1_iwm5pmc wrote on November 16, 2022 at 5:45 PM

I think the user I replied to used wear out in the sense I’ve interpreted it in my response, they talked about epub readers not being updated and therefore not working with epub files anymore, which doesn’t make sense at all if they didn’t imply them wearing out with not being updated. A better term may be deprecation. Software (or digital data) doesn’t deprecate in the sense that it loses functionality, that’s what I meant and that is what the user above was implying with their comment about epub reader, sims 2 game etc. I stand by what I’ve written.

Anyway, let me answer your question with another question:

Do you think print media lasts 50, 100 or 300 years on its own without maintenance? If your answer is no, then you can do 0.1% of that maintenance for your digital books by keeping backups of it / software that can play it and maybe the operating system. Heck, even keeping an old computer in storage for archival purposes works too.

I understand your mini disc example and you’re right, but that’s a different problem. You are talking the physical medium specifically, not the digital abstraction of it. The only argument against digital data I see is a catastrophic event where humanity is regressed to a point where utilizing computers is impossible.

Specialist-Throat924 t1_iwmbmmm wrote on November 16, 2022 at 6:25 PM

Okay, they didn't use the expression "wear out" about files, but I catch your drift.

I never said that books last that long with or without maintenance. I certainly don't think they do! Preserving media for hundreds of years is very difficult no matter the format. I merely commented that access to older digital material may well prove difficult far into the future. I will admit that I was straying away from the original topic, which was a direct comparison between paper books and ebooks. I feel like the debate on whether we can play a Windows 7 game in 2022 kind of loses its point when we are talking about preserving things even further into the future, especially longer than the lifetime of the people who had fond memories of that piece of media. Yes, this was the example the other user made, and I agree with you that their difficulties can be overcome. But I think they have a point still. It's already not fully straightforward (as in install game, click & play), and it's only been 18 years. Games are a part of our cultural history and could prove very interesting to future historians and other social scientists. Will they be able to access them in hundreds of years? That's the real issue imo.

I have my doubts about us being able to preserve functional older computers for hundreds of years, but I would be happy to know that I'm wrong, as I get kind of stressed out at thinking of all the wonderful (in its way) old technology that will be forever lost.

> I understand your mini disc example and you’re right, but that’s a different problem.

Yes, that's why I called it an adjacent problem. My point was that physical media isn't necessarily better regarding future inaccessibility due to format obsolescence. Just a comment for those who love everything physical I guess :)