DoopSlayer t1_ix96i0r wrote on November 21, 2022 at 6:32 PM

the author organized the words into that order so even if you take away something that they never could have expected or aimed for I think you still need to give some credit where it's due.

Words organized in a different order wouldn't have caused you to feel or think about that revelation

virtualaenigma OP t1_ix9z21k wrote on November 21, 2022 at 9:41 PM

>Words organized in a different order wouldn't have caused you to feel or think about that revelation

Why not?

For example, if I am a staunch atheist and I have a tendency to notice and connect with anti-religious messages in books, isn't it likely that any such writing would elicit the same feelings regardless of how the words were organized? The book could be well written or poorly written, but either way I might connect with the anti-religious message because of my personal beliefs.

I completely agree with giving due credit for good writing, but if you took some deep meaning from the words which was not the intent of the writer then that doesn't necessarily make it good writing. If you had a profound epiphany as a result of reading the book, that doesn't necessarily make the book profound.

DoopSlayer t1_ixa2coh wrote on November 21, 2022 at 10:04 PM

"isn't it likely that any such writing would elicit the same feelings regardless of how the words were organized?"

is this your experience with reading? Because it is as far opposite of mine as conceivable

virtualaenigma OP t1_ixabvlq wrote on November 21, 2022 at 11:14 PM

Yes. Similar concepts and themes will elicit similar feelings, irrespective of the specific words that are used.

Of course the quality of the writing between two works may differ but the feelings that I feel would be the same. That's more about me and my perspectives and beliefs as a reader, and not necessarily that the author intended to elicit that feeling.

maneating_tiger t1_ixbdf1z wrote on November 22, 2022 at 4:08 AM

I am similar in that way (connecting to messages or themes because of the way I personally see the world regardless of "quality" of the writing) but even within those similar themes I find authors who handle them well and those who handle them poorly and when they are handled particularly well I'm usually left with something new I hadn't thought about. I tend to credit the author with helping me realize that new thing, no matter if it was super intended or not.

virtualaenigma OP t1_ixcydfi wrote on November 22, 2022 at 2:44 PM

That makes sense. I agree that well written works are more likely to elicit deeper meanings and a deeper connection than poorly written works.

What I don't get is why a particular book should be praised for some unique insight I got when that wasn't the intent of the author. The book was simply the means of getting me to that insight. Another book or movie or song lyric could also just as well have gotten me to that insight. So if that was not the intent of the author, then that particular book cannot be uniquely credited for helping me reach that particular insight.

maneating_tiger t1_ixehpcy wrote on November 22, 2022 at 8:53 PM

I think it can be "uniquely credited" because another book or song lyric didn't get you to that insight. We live in time linearly, by necessity we have to experience something before or after something else. At that point it just seems like common courtesy to at least partly credit the author for some of that experience. People definitely can get carried away, turning the author into some holy person because of the experience you had reading their book isn't good. But when I look back at books or any work of art that I learned something from, I still appreciate that work (and by extension the creator) because of the path it put me on.

Sure it's all fundamentally chance, but it's like when you're hungry and you eat a pizza, that pizza did fill you up even though a hamburger would have done the same thing. It's not weird to credit the pizza in that situation.