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sisharil t1_iuiu0n6 wrote

Reply to comment by whattodo12351 in Anyone who’s read “12 rules for life” by JBP finds it so harsh and unforgiving? by newbalancewearer

>I am, to clarify, NOT stating that public figures shouldn’t be criticized, especially when it comes to educators of mental health, but Peterson rose to fame as someone whose book and general advice helped guide a lot of bitter, misogynistic men who were filled with hate away from the incel-community and towards the road of self-improvement and moral responsibility.

Here's the thing. He helps them be less self hating and despairing, perhaps, but he does nothing but encourage them to embrace misogyny and other forms of bigotry. He is also a gateway to other even more extreme, self-described fascists like Matt Walsh and the rest of the alt-lite dailywire folks.

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FivyAndErn t1_iuj4esk wrote

Exactly, this is the only Peterson point that matters: he uses his half-decent lifestyle advice (which he himself doesn’t follow), as a way to draw disaffected young men towards the alt-right.

One of Peterson’s academic mentors initially thought Peterson was brilliant but became horrified as his career in academia continued, as Peterson was so convinced of his genius that he would never move an inch, and he fetishized actual fascist thought leaders. Jordan Peterson is extremely dangerous as an agent of radicalization

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chutton2012 t1_iuj8ih4 wrote

He doesn't encourage people to embrace misogyny... There are a lot of fair criticisms on this thread, but this is perhaps the most off base and blatant hatred by someone who clearly hasn't read him. Which is fine, but don't go around blatantly spreading misinformation simply because you don't like the man.

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Genshed t1_iujgnut wrote

Remember what he said about Friedan and "The Feminine Mystique"? If that's enough to fuel his loathing he's at least misogyny-adjacent.

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chutton2012 t1_iuju9ko wrote

I would agree with your distaste for that quote, but it’s hardly a view propagated and promoted within his book. Like I said there are many fair criticisms of Jordan Peterson, but acting like he’s leading people towards incelhood and the alt right shows a fundamental misunderstanding between random Jordan Peterson quotes and the actual material written in his books. I’m not defending every aspect of his personality, I also criticize him. But that’s not what he writes and the bash fest for anyone who enjoys his teachings is misguided by the flawed man.

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Genshed t1_iujvbct wrote

I don't accuse him of promoting inceldom as such. But he definitely promotes the view that 'sex' is something women have that men are supposed to get from them. As for alt-right, no. He's promoting the paleoconservative views that were current around the time he and I were born. Gender roles that were the product of an industrial/post-industrial economy and society are represented as the natural and inevitable result of immutable human nature.

Jungianism is no more scientific than Freudianism, and depicting women as 'chaos dragons' is not philosophy or psychology.

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chutton2012 t1_iujwtc8 wrote

I didn’t say you did, I was replying to someone else to start with. I can disagree with how people in this thread are portraying his ideology while agreeing with many of the (fair) criticisms of the man, some of which you yourself have just presented. But considering I get downvoted even for that I doubt that same level of impartiality exists elsewhere in this discussion. He’s a flawed man, with flawed views, absolutely. But his teachings aren’t nearly as dramatically awful as some people present them as.

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sisharil t1_iuk0b9t wrote

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/18/style/jordan-peterson-12-rules-for-life.html

https://australiabusinessnews.com.au/news/jordan-peterson-asks-wear-makeup-workplace/

In addition to the things covered in these articles, specifically that he believes sexual harassment occurs because women induce men to commit it by wearing sexually provocative makeup in the workplace, he also believes rape within the confines of marriage is acceptable.

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chutton2012 t1_iukaevu wrote

He doesn’t say that in 12 rules. I don’t need a summary for a book I’ve actually read. I’m not arguing about whether Jordan Peterson, the person, is good and above criticism. Im saying 12 rules is not some misogynistic, alt right creed that exists for incels. I’ve read it, it’s nothing of the sort. It’s fairly innocuous. If you want to criticize things that Jordan Peterson said in interviews you’ll get no argument from me.

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sisharil t1_iukb08i wrote

That's fair. However, if someone becomes a fan of his work and looks into more of what he says and supports, they can easily get sucked into the misogyny and bigotry that he supports. That's all I'm saying.

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chutton2012 t1_iukbe3k wrote

That’s 100% fair too. I appreciate your rational debate and thank you for showing me some of the things he’s said. I wasn’t aware of that and I completely disagree with those statements.

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