FrustratingMangooose t1_iry49oy wrote
Reply to comment by bookdealmaybe in The hidden transphobia in "The Art of Being Normal" by hayzulhay
The thing is, what trans person has had an ideal coming-out story? Not many. How many trans people have come out, and people were okay with that? How many times do you see people calling out a trans individual? A lot. Kate’s experience—while different—still shows that this is an experience that many, many trans individuals experience. The reaction she has is reasonable within the context of that. It will not be the reaction everyone wants, but it is still reasonable. She said she was not okay to the readers, despite the dialogue suggesting otherwise. We knew she was not okay, and that is a reasonable reaction for a trans individual.
Since the excerpt was never sent, I recommend reading page ~945 until the chapter’s ending. She did not seem okay with her friends calling her out (if you want to call it that).
Yes, you cannot expect a cis author to be able to put themselves in our shoes and walk in them. They might be able to put themselves in that perspective, but their feet do not fit, so they cannot walk in them.
Also, I already said I would have preferred a trans author because of that, but I recognize the efforts, and I do not think she was writing with hidden transphobia. I specifically mention hidden transphobia because the OP made it seem as if the author had an ulterior motive. She was writing with hidden transphobia but was not malicious. Does that make sense to you? How can you not be malicious if you are transphobic? You hiding it means nothing. That is why I say the author was not transphobic, and she wrote the book well. No one has to agree with me, but the OP had some terrible takes.
And yes, I would have equally high expectations if you wrote about my Black experience, but if know you are white and writing from my experience, then I cannot have those expectations cloud how I read your book. If you write something that is not of the Black experience, then yes, I will call you. I can call you out for it without calling you a racist; similarly, if someone wrote about my trans experience poorly, I will call them out. I can do it without calling them transphobic.
No matter what, an author who has lived the experience will always write better. We know this, but allowing others outside of the community to help represent us is equally okay—as long as it does not harm us and paint us as horrible individuals. I do not think the author did that. If I felt that the author wrote us horribly, I would agree with you, but I do not see how the author was doing anything the OP suggested.
bookdealmaybe t1_iry8yq9 wrote
>Since the excerpt was never sent, I recommend reading page ~945 until the chapter’s ending. She did not seem okay with her friends calling her out (if you want to call it that).
I will concede this point on the virtue that I lost my copy a few months ago, and cannot look it up. It's possible (if not probable) I may have missed or misremembered something.
>Yes, you cannot expect a cis author to be able to put themselves in our shoes and walk in them. They might be able to put themselves in that perspective, but their feet do not fit, so they cannot walk in them.
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I'm not expecting them to be perfect. I'm expecting them to be 'close enough'. The Art of Being Normal got a lot wrong. That's not close enough by any stretch of the imagination. If you're choosing to write from a trans person's perspective, I'm gonna take it as you saying 'Hey, I know enough about what I'm talking about to do this justice'.
If you fail at it, you might as well be writing the story for clout for the good you do.
>I specifically mention hidden transphobia because the OP made it seem as if the author had an ulterior motive.
This (and the next paragraph) I'm afraid we're going to have to agree to disagree on. I do not believe having transphobic thoughts or biases innately make people transphobic. I think it makes them flawed, definitely room to grow in trans issues, but not innately a bad person.
>No matter what, an author who has lived the experience will always write better. We know this, but allowing others outside of the community to help represent us is equally okay—as long as it does not harm us and paint us as horrible individuals. I do not think the author did that. If I felt that the author wrote us horribly, I would agree with you, but I do not see how the author was doing anything the OP suggested.
I think we're in agreement that Miss Williamson wrote us horribly. I also agree she did not paint us as horrible individuals. I do, however, think she's harmed us. Idk what version you got of the book, but when I bought it a few years back, the crosswalk on the cover was the trans pride flag. They've changed it to the gay pride flag. That seems like a fix to a problem nobody had.
I think Kate asking Leo if he was 'in disguise' when she meant stealth (while something a kid who doesn't know any better might say) does harm us, cause as OP suggested, it makes it seem like we aren't really our gender. We're just playing pretend. I'm not gonna bring up the dress-up box, cause you do have a valid point with it no longer being a dress-up box. Hell, I even used to call my stash of clothes my dress-up clothes.
I think the impression that a trans girl going out in public dressed instantly passing and being beautiful reinforces inaccurate expectations of trans women. Sure, some trans girls (especially if they start young) can have it that easy, but after puberty? Less likely. Still not perfect.
Sorry, but I can't read a book where both trans characters (even though one just started coming out) passing with very little resistance or clocking as a good representation of trans people. At best, it feels like you wanted to write a book about being trans without any of the struggles with being trans.
You can claim that someone somewhere had it that easy, but it's just phoning it in imo.
FrustratingMangooose t1_iryrr49 wrote
> The Art of Being Normal got a lot wrong.
After reading the information you have provided, I will say the author could have done better as an author and trans ally, yes.
> I do not believe having transphobic thoughts or biases innately makes people transphobic.
As much as I hate using Google definitions, Google defines transphobia as “dislike of or prejudice against transsexual or transgender people.” If you do this to yourself, you are, by definition, transphobic. The fact that you do it to yourself and you do not find it transphobic would be a marker of transphobia. “These are thoughts, so I can’t be transphobic, right?” If the thoughts are causing you discomfort with your trans identity due to heteronormative expectations from society, then yes, that is transphobic. I agree that it does not make anyone a nasty person, but if it is anything but transphobia, why call it internalized transphobia? Internalized transphobia does not only mean that you experience transphobia in yourself; it can also mean that you project those beliefs onto others subconsciously, which does become externalized transphobia if you do not address it.
> I do, however, think she’s harmed us.
Okay, I agree that she has harmed the community, but I still have my doubts as to how harmful they are to us. I do not remember any book with the Pride flag, but I searched for it, and I will agree that it would be more appropriate to have our flag, and it does misrepresent us if you use the Pride flag, and I cannot fathom any reason why they would change it. There is no defending that kind of misrepresentation since it takes zero effort to use our flag.
> I think Kate asking Leo if he was ‘in disguise’ when she meant stealth [...] does harm us
Okay, now this is what I wanted. I agree that this does harm us because saying “I disguise” has different implications than using “stealth.” Although the author cannot use “stealth” because what child knows that, right? She can leave it out and not have it affect the plot. You are right.
I agree that passing stems from transphobia. There is an air of expectation that we have to be passing to be valid, rather than for our safety or because we want it, but I feel the book is still good. I suppose it is because I had it easy as a trans individual (well, aside from HRT being a pain in the ass) that I am more accepting. It fits closely with how my trans journey was growing up, and as a result, it describes how it felt navigating as a trans person. Not everyone will like how the author writes about us; that is okay, so you have every right to discredit a book like this.
bookdealmaybe t1_iryseqc wrote
I'm not gonna talk about other points, cause while I may not agree with you on them, I do recognize that I may be wrong.
>Okay, now this is what I wanted. I agree that this does harm us because saying “I disguise” has different implications than using “stealth.” Although the author cannot use “stealth” because what child knows that, right? She can leave it out and not have it affect the plot. You are right.
This I want to talk about. Cause you're right, it's not unheard of for a trans kid to not know the word stealth. That's not the problem I have with it. The problem I have is that it is specifically mentioned that Kate has done a TON of research on trans issues that she has in a binder to show her parents when she decides to come out. But... she's never seen the word 'stealth' before?
FrustratingMangooose t1_irytfc0 wrote
I don’t know; until now, I did not know what “stealth” meant, and I used to do a lot of research about trans folks. I do not know when the term became used for trans folks but growing up when you “stealth” it means you have unprotective sex without the recipient’s permission. Is it weird, yes, but not far-fetched; this could be because not even I knew what that term meant, and yes, I did have to search it up before responding because I was like, “stealth? Huh?” Considering I am 20 and had no idea, I think it is a tiny bit reasonable to assume a 14-year-old would not know.
bookdealmaybe t1_iryu188 wrote
Yeah, I can see that since you explained it. Idk, I've known the term 'stealth' since I first learned what trans is. I do have a tendency to project my experiences onto other people, so I concede the point that she may not have heard the word before.
FrustratingMangooose t1_iryvxhc wrote
Yeah, I had no idea what that word meant until now. I mean, I am glad I do, but I always called those specific people “toast.” Trans ghost. People who cut off ties with their trans identity and live as cisgender people after transitioning. I highly doubt anyone else called them that, but I had no term to describe them.
bookdealmaybe t1_irywdly wrote
Well, yeah, but you had a non problematic term for it, which was the point I was initially making. Even if you didn't know 'stealth' specifically, you had a term that didn't imply trans peeps were playing pretend.
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Though, I do agree a kid might not realize 'in disguise' is problematic
FrustratingMangooose t1_iryxtqy wrote
Yeah, I do not think a kid would know, but that does not excuse the author for writing it. She can omit it and the plot would remain the same, so you are right regardless.
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