For anything labeled dark romance, it’s pretty common; it’s basically a coin flip as to will it have SA in it or not. It’s also not uncommon for older historical romances to include scenes where the consent is dubious or non-existent—these books didn’t get a reputation as “bodice rippers” for nothing—but it’s not as common in more recent historical romances (unless they’re also dark romance). In other subgenres, like sweet romance and rom-coms, it’s very very rare to have SA even as an alluded to element in the story, much less described graphically on page.

Can't answer your question, but can offer a series suggestion.

Look at the October Daye series. No SA, full of romance, has a lot of fantasy stuff in it. Hell, the last book had me squalling like a baby cause of the romance in it.

I follow 'Trigger Warning Database' on Goodreads. They make review posts that just have the warnings in it. Since I follow them, their reviews pop up first if they have one.

On Story Graph they have a dedicated area under each title for User or Publisher Content/Trigger Warnings.

Look for Amish romance novels. Very chaste, but definite religious messages, trade gender roles.

Yeah, you've gotta check. There is a ton of sexual assult in the romance genre and I also avoid it like the plague.

I wish it was on the book like a rating. One of my favourite fantasy authors (Mercedes Lackey) had some pretty gruesome sexual assult in her Heralds of Valdemere series and I wasn't prepared for it at all. I have never returned to that series.

For good fantasy romance with strong female characters and no s.a. I really like Ilona Andrews.

I haven't read all her series but I like Hidden Legacy and the Inkeeper Chronicles.

Also try doesthedogdie.com has trigger warnings without the spoilers

If it’s dark romance? Yeah, pretty likely. Anything involving aliens or a billionaire boss also ups the likelihood.

For non-dark stuff, the older a book is the more like it is to have dubious consent. There was a gradual shift ~2005 where the conversation around consent became more similar to today’s understanding.

But if you’re reading recently published, non-dark romance? 2/5 containing on-page SA sounds like bad luck to me.

I recommend Seanan McGuire's books. One thing you will never find in them is SA.

Her October Daye series is one of my favourites.

This is actually super helpful, thank you! One of the two books was from 2000 and the other one had a millionaire boss in it, so that makes a lot of sense now. 😅

I’ve tried to avoid dark romance so far for this reason, but thank you for the reminder. 🥰

With history novels this makes sense, I just get easily upset over the fact that some authors, while adding sa scenes, still manage to do so in a respectful way (ie not being too explicit or treating the subject with the seriousness it deserves), while other don’t. It’s clearly possible, so why do you feel the need to traumatize your readers? 🙃 (Sorry, ranting here lol)

I guess no impulse purchases whatever the case. 🥲

Thank you! 🙏🏻 I’ll check them out 🥰

cries in impulsiveness

I wouldn’t be able to pick it up again either. Feel you 100% 😪

I don't read strict romance, so I can't speak to that genre in particular. But I share a sensitivity to SA in books and avoid it as best I can. You can always just throw up a question on here and ask for an all clear - people are good to respond without spoilers.

How do you feel about fantasy romance? I understand that not everyone likes the fantasy elements. If you do, try these:

Annette Marie's Guild Codex series with all spinoffs

Shelby Mahurin's Serpent and Dove trilogy

Sarah Maas' Throne of Glass and A Court books (someone please double check me here it's been a while but I don't remember any SA in these, just growling, scowling assholes)

SG Prince's Elvish Trilogy

Sabaa Tahir's An Ember in the Ashes series

T. Kingfisher's Swordheart

Laini Taylor's Daughter of Smoke and bone series and Strange the Dreamer duology

India Holton's Dangerous Damsels series (bonus is that these are very funny)

If you like magical realism, Heather Webber has some great books starting with Midnight at the Blackbird Cafe

Happy reading!

If you like queer romance, check out Everlina Maxwell's Winter's Orbit or Alexandra Rowland's A Taste of Gold and Iron. All loving sex scenes, no SA. I find that generally queer romance has less SA than romance marketed at straight people, though YMMV. I'll second the recommendation of Seanan McGuire's October Daye books, though there isn't much sex in them. It's not out yet, but Mia Tsai's Bitter Medicine has some of the most loving and hot sex scenes I've ever read (the publish date is in March, so look for it then).

Thank you for these! Fantasy is actually my favorite genre in theory, but the best ones are often so long that they don’t make the best starter novels. Meaning fantasy romance will come in handy, so thanks! ☺️

I don't read a lot of romance but...

You can check trigger warnings for books on storygraph! Most are user/reader submitted.

Most of the MM romances I read are pretty good about adding trigger warnings, but I’ve been pretty stuck on that genre for a while, so I can’t attest to others.

Because it sells. Like... A lot. Asian romantic light novels have plenty of manipulative control freaks with a lot of dubcon or noncon.

And dont make me talk about those age gaps...

Maybe you would enjoy some P.G. woodhouse

Came here to say this! The trigger warnings are placed in the categories minor, moderate, and graphic.

I came up with bodice rippers. A few years ago I went through my library and removed the rapey-er books in my collection. They did have the drama levels I enjoy, but at the end of the day I don't like authors using SA as a way to create and boost that drama. I'm sure I still have a few that are iffy, but the most glaring examples are gone.

I also feel like we've reached a point where SA shouldn't be used as a tool for that anymore. This isn't the repressive times of the past, where novel heroines were expected to be pure and sexual contact was forced to maintain that sense of purity.

Yup- the older you go the more likely (I’m looking at you, The Duke and I by Julia Quinn). Also be careful with big status gaps between characters or “dark” romance like other people have said.

>And dont make me talk about those age gaps...

Riiight?? Currently refusing to watch House of Dragon for similar reasons. 🙃

But yes and that’s the most infuriating part! One book was so graphic it made me flinch and it has 5 stars on Amazon and is a NY times bestseller. To be reminded how celebrated it is in society is…. 🥶

(Edit: To the Downvoters of this comment I only say examine yourself. Why does someone calling out SA warrant a dislike? Do you feel attacked somehow? If not, what is it?)

Guess what the book from 2000 was… 🙃

My experience with Asian romance differs though.

I'm an Asian, so I'm inclined to reading Asian romance novels because of the difference in dating culture in Asia vs West.

Romance in Asia is more slow burn, so you don't see kisses or sex till both parties are very into the relationship, so more consensual. On the contrary, in the west you see characters kiss on the first date, sex in the first week. So there's a higher chance of SA, I feel.

Just my two cents

For the rest of the series — An Offer From A Gentleman (Benedict, Book 3) has on page attempted SA by side characters, but IIRC it isn’t in any of the other books

Lost my mind, man. Lost my mind. Esp since she doubled down in an interview.

Seannan McGuire does not write SA. At all. In her Incryptid series a female character is kidnapped and stripped naked. And she still isn't SAd.

You also won't get explicit sex scenes. She doesn't really write those. But the romance in her series are so good, sweet and so believable.

If you want fantasy with explicit sex scenes, T. Kingfisher's Saint of Steel series is awesome for that. No SA, and all the romance.

Sometimes authors are simply bad at writing and don’t know how to write a proper romance novel. I’m sure there’s at least one website out there that has all the trigger warnings for in a book listed out! I know StoryGraph has content warnings listed.

Side note, I’m so glad you were able to get back into reading!

Not really a romance reader, but it totally throws me when a book I am really enjoying throws a graphic sa in there like it's nothing. Like ok, maybe it's plot or character relevant but do you have to make it so lurid that it becomes the most memorable part of what was otherwise an excellent book?

SA is pretty pervasive in all genres. Sci-fi, horror, abuse or "dark" romance, historical fiction, and fantasy being the worst. Contemporary cozy mysteries and cozy romances seem to have it the least.

As someone who is slow of wit - what is SA?

I just googled and it’s either Sexaholics Anonimous, South African, or sexual assault

I've noticed that especially in gay stuff there's a lot of dubcon and stuff, it seems to be rare to find men who willingly bottom.

hop on over to /r/MM_RomanceBooks they will supply you with plenty of books you are struggling to find. they are fairly active and very friendly.

R/romancebooks is a very welcoming subreddit that likes to make recs for pretty much anything and is pretty good about including potential triggers. And if you look up past threads (or post a new one if its been awhile) about favorite subgenres within romance, it may help you kind of find your niche in the very large Romancelandia...like, if you want historical novels set in Ancient Greece that are light on spice, I'm prettt sure they'd be able to recommend a dozen. And if you list your favorites, I'm pretty sure they'd be able to say, "oh, obviously, you're a fan of comedic shapeshifter motorcycle romances, here are a bunch of others you'll like."

sexual assault

Try reading some Melanie Harlow.

Ok sexaholics anonymous had me chuckling, ngl 😄

Forgot I was on the books subreddit and thought this was about any media. I haven't tried a lot of gay books yet, I was mainly talking about anime and manga. I've especially watched a lot of gay anime, but unless they have no sex they all had dubcon.

Thanks for the subreddit suggestion though!

i don't read romance at all as a genre, but i love visiting that sub for discussion. people seem less judgmental and less defensive than in more general subs, so the atmosphere is more positive.

so i hope you find some good things to read that have something that is lacking in other media. :)

Read Brando Sando, he’s a mormon & his only triggers are long books, self defecation and bad writing!

I can’t tell if you’re trying to make a joke or using sarcasm to insult me.

I’m jokingly poking fun at the ol’ elusive reading comprehension/subtext mystery. Seriously, this guy writes vanilla novels so no SA there, barely any mention of sex. He’s a mormon, though not preachy, so go ahead and join the fandom)

You might like the Guernsey Literary and Potato Peel Pie Society, or Dorothy Sayers romance in her mystery novels, starting with Strong Poison.

[removed]

If you like Urban Fantasy Romance, the Elder Races by Thea Harrison are also fun and should be safe (to the best of my recollection).

[deleted]

You’re not calling out sexual assault. Everything you’re mentioning is fictional. Nobody was sexually assaulted, because none of the characters exist.

If you don’t want to read stories where SA exists (as it does in the real world), that’s your prerogative, but don’t act like it’s some morally superior stance, it’s not.

Reading about sexual assault - no matter how explicit - isn’t immoral. It can be part of the story the author wants to convey. If you think the story must then itself be immoral, I’d urge you to reevaluate your position. A story containing an immoral person isn’t the same as the story being immoral (what would that even mean lol).

I read what I think was the first trilogy of books. Female main character. It was many years ago but I remember her being captured and then SA and etc., Especially having her foot broken.

Thanks for making my point for me.

I clearly said it’s the age gap I have the problem with (=inherent lack of consent), which is in fact not only “condoned” in western modern day societies, but to some degrees encouraged. Not least through arguments and deflection like yours. Just last week a 29m coworker told me about him hooking up with a 16 yo like that’s a normal thing to do.

So I don’t “forbid myself” from watching a show, I just don’t want to watch it. Maybe look up the word bigotry again, because wanting to avoid triggers and wanting to actually enjoy content in one’s personal time isn’t it. (For similar reasons I also don’t consume anything within the horror genre. Is that bigoted, too, when being jumpscared just isn’t my idea of fun?)

Then the simple minded insult. Ironic. Fiction is written by real people. Who can take accountability. Who make money off of said content. Now you can argue there’s a disconnect there, but I don’t see it that way. And many other people don’t either. Reminds me of folks who say “We need to separate the art from the artist.” No we don’t.

Lastly, the handmaid’s tale has many problems, but factually not that specific one you mentioned. Not going into detail here, as it would derail the discussion.

In general with my experience of reading fantasy, I do feel like SA might be more common in the genre as well. Maybe because they are often set in medievelish settings, and it's at least a trope that women had to be careful of traveling alone and so on. Saving the damsel/princess in distress is a trope. The evil king that takes what he wants.

If I am thinking about the longer classics, it's almost guaranteed that it has a scene like that. Wheel of time definitly, GoT obviously, Eragon yep, Sword of truth half the pages, Malazan all day and worse, Lord of the rings... nothing comes directly to mind... Name of the wind yes.

But I don't have a problem with any of them. You might have, because they vary in their depictions. I don't read them with the mindset of analyzing that, so I am not sure, but I would guess GoT, Malazan and Sword of truth are definitly not for you :D

When I shop for romance, I specifically look for romances in which someone is going to try to kill someone else. When the hero and heroine fall in love while investigating a crime, or the hero or heroine has someone trying to kill them sexual assault just doesn't happen because they already have plenty of the other kind of drama.

what the hell is "SA"?

[deleted]

I really like the Obsideon trilogy and the 500 Kingdoms series. There is an attempted SA but it gets shut down pretty quickly.

Edit: and my favourite series Elf bane which may never be completed...

While I enjoy the series, I disagree that there's no sa or attempted sa in it - in a Local Habitation >!Alex tries to magically whammy Toby so that she would sleep with him so he could steal her life force and her whole relationship with Devin is arguably grooming, although I don't think she realises that in the first book.!<

If you like Nalini Singh (oh my god, LOVE HER!! The Hunters Guild novels are awesome) you'll probably like Patricia Briggs' Mercedes Thompson series, and Ilona Andrews' Hidden Legacy series. Both are urban fantasy. Oh, and Ilona Andrews also has the Kate Daniels series that is super good.

If you want to try historical romance, I really enjoy Mary Jo Putney. Excellent writing, great story lines and characters with some heat.

And if you do want some actual kink, Cherise Sinclair is the best. Like, actually good healthy kink, not abusive relationships masquerading as kink. She's also got just a good contemporary romance series as well, Sons of the Survivalist. Very cute with some suspense.

Oop. You're right.

I'd forgotten about Alex and Devin, since both of them are in the series for such short times.

Just a heads up: don't EVER read the Outlander series by Diana Gabaldon, none of her books actually, she's got this weird fetish for SA and inserts it by the dozens in her books. It has become a bit of an in-joke in her fandom lmao

[deleted]

I wouldn't say you're unlucky, I'd say it's just something that's unfortunately very common.

I heavily recommend This is How You Lose the Time War, the Lady's Guide to Celestial Mechanics, and the Dangerous Damsels series. All very good and zero sexual assault.

Dammit I read the Arrows trilogy recently and I was so mad at that rape scene in book 3. Out of the clear blue. It wasn't graphic at all but it had me all kinds of messed up and MAD!!! I won't read any of hers again, either.

Ah, I really love a good Fairy tale retelling, so 500 Kingdoms was right up my alley. But the Fables graphic novel series is probably better.

Elfbane makes me so sad because I really loved the whole series and it will probably never be finished.

But yeah, she's hit or miss.

I kind of wish the person who lent it to me had warned me, I was in high school at the time!

Same with Outlander. The person who lent it to me didn't say a word!

Oh I love that series. It's sooo good! To the OP another series recommendation are the Mercy Thompson and Alpha & Omega by Patricia Biggs. Both series are full of action and romance and fantasy. I think in the Mercy Thompson series there is implied SA in one book but it doesn't "show" anything and in the Alpha & Omega series it's alluded to but again it's not graphic, just mentions it.

It’s too much. I had to stop reading them and watching the series cause it’s the amount of it is ridiculous.

[deleted]

Sexual Assault

[deleted]

Thanks. Seems an odd thing to abbreviate. Is this some variant of algorithm avoiding shorthand?

That’s that genre (anime/manga). There is a bunch of other media that doesn’t have that approach.

You can have fast burn romance and casual sex with complete respect of consent for both parties.

This is probably a good response for about any thread here.

I read exactly 2 supermarket style romance books in my life, a jackie collins and another some historical romance one I forget. the jackie collins one was basically softcore porn strung along a paper thin plot, and the other one was hardcore porn re-imagining of the robin hood story. so yeah, totally random sample of 2 from the supermarket romance genre and both basically ended up being porn-y.

I think you should definitely check for triggers before reading, especially in the fantasy, dark romance and thriller genres. Romance nowadays are super iffy, fantasy too grim all kinds of gory death, torture s.a. etc, I am cool with it definitely hard for many people uo stomach.

Thrillers are most tame where usually some stoic cop/military dude falls for a damsel in distress.

Also do check out Laini Taylor if you love romance in a fantasy setting.

Brandon Sanderson probably the most pg13 adult fantasy writer , his romance is kinda crap though.

It's actually a pretty common abbreviation these days, usually used by the media in order to both shorten the term and sensor it as it can be triggering for some people to even see or hear the full word.

If you want excellent, healthy, sex positive romance with zero SA try Talia Hibbert or Alyssa Cole.

Hibbert’s Brown sisters trilogy is extraordinary, and starts out with a chronically Ill plus side heroine and the gorgeous cinnamon roll redhead living in her building.

You would be amazed at how many rapey and SA or abuse adjacent tropes have been incredibly normalized in society to the point where it can be so deeply tied into romance and romantic fiction that it gets kind of gross.

imo way more people should just admit they want to read some really hard smut.

Hey, we're supposed to be anonymous! Don't go googling us!

It's all through fantasy books too. It really pisses me off.

>Fiction is written by real people. Who can take accountability.

Accountability for what? The sexual assault that didn’t happen? The age gap that doesn’t exist? You haven’t explained what’s inherently wrong with writing a story that contains SA. I don’t see a problem. A story is something the author imagined, and wants to share with the world. If that story includes rape, then so be it.

This isn’t about a disconnect between the art and the author, it’s about a disconnect between a fictional character doing something evil, and the author or the art being evil.

If you're looking to get back into reading romance, and want an encouraging community to talk about them and get recommendations, r/RomanceBooks is a wonderful subreddit.

I personally like stories w/ really messed up stuff like SA, but I do think there can be a moral line in regards to the portrayal of such scenes. Portraying SA etc as hot or desirable is not good.

In addition to Lettuce’s points, I see it a lot in research papers on the topic bc it’s a convenient shorthand that can easily have more letters added to it (CSA)… researchers like their acronyms.

I personally like it for myself, bc as Lettuce said, it can be less triggering to hear… talking about it the full words makes it too real, and I’m not ready for that yet.

No worries! I remember I'd also heard that there saw no sa in the October Daye books so when I read a Local Habitation, I wasn't ready for that scene and had to take a breather, esp because >!Toby gets angry and the characters around her all just go 'that's just what he is, silly of you to not have recognised what he is earlier'!<

Can you clarify what you mean? I would say that if a story/chapter is written through the perspective of a character committing SA, it makes sense it would be described as hot/desirable. That’s just a consequence of the lens through which the story is told.

Oh don’t worry I didn’t google Virgins Anonymous, you are safe :P

seppuku

Maybe calling out isn’t the right word here, because you’re right, there’s no one TO call out. We can talk about whether or not some people here feel called out, but that is another story.

You are, of course, also right about fictional characters or a fictional story itself not being moral. Morality is tied to actions, choices, decisions. It therefore doesn’t make sense to judge fictional characters at all, we can only analyze their behavior or the imagery underlying it.

While you are the one bringing up morality here, not me (I merely suggested that sa’s popularity in media these days - like many people in these comments confirm! - makes my spine freeze), it’s still a relevant discussion to have.

In another comment you mentioned the word “evil.” Who said anything about evil? Immorally doesn’t equate evil, or a whole lot of people would have to be evil in the real world.

We’ve come closer to why morality still is questionable when sa is being turned into a romantic trope or dramatic plot device in another comment you made:

>Accountability for what? The sexual assault that didn’t happen? The age gap that doesn’t exist? You haven’t explained what’s inherently wrong with writing a story that contains SA. I don’t see a problem. A story is something the author imagined, and wants to share with the world. If that story includes rape, then so be it.

Like I said, only actions can be moral. Writing, publishing, marketing, selling are all actions made by real people. I also mentioned in my edit of the post my not minding SA in media if it’s handled responsibly. So for example the assaulter could face actual consequences for their actions, whether that be them going to jail, getting killed (historical or fantasy) or simply left by their partner who was the victim. Instead it’s become a plot device that in the worst case is romanticized (the age gap with the younger one being a child is the common choice here) and in the best case thrown into the story casually, without preparation and often without the severity it deserves. All the while viewers/readers continue to watch and celebrate such content. The writers know this of course, which is how they’re the ones making money.

If you still “don’t see the problem”, the most important part you’re not quite right about is this:

>Everything you’re mentioning is fictional. Nobody was sexually assaulted, because none of the characters exist.

Why, do you think, does a whole group of people (that might be larger than you realize) have to look up trigger warnings about SA at all? Why are there whole sides dedicated to this?

I have a feeling bringing up statistics isn’t going to do anything, but we know them all by now. 1 in 6/7. The story doesn’t contain real SA of course, but real life does. So does it contain impressionable young people who consume media in vast quantities, binge watching shows sometimes in one day. It also contains assaulters, r..ists and in some cases people who have the definition of SA wrong. Especially the latter is dangerous, because I’m sure the coworker I’ve mentioned earlier (and many others like this) sees even less of a problem with a child being with a grown person. This trope being acknowledged within a romance and not addressed as a problem can thereby leave small reminders in certain people, that their behavior is ok. Not everyone has the mental capacity, emotional intelligence or even the willingness to critically examine a character’s choice. They just consume and enjoy.

While I was growing up, another trope was pretty popular in basically all genres of film and TV. The “Keep fighting even after she says no” trope. A lot of men especially had that idea down to a T. My attacker included. He also didn’t stop after my no. Or the tenth. Or the 20th.

I like many others don’t look for trigger warnings because we slightly enjoy it less. We don’t even look for them because we think about morality in any way. We look for them to protect our brains and bodies from trauma wounds being opened.

And while I can feel the “but this is your trauma not mine” coming, I’ll lastly say this: Morality at the end of the day can be analyzed to death. Whole philosophies have been developed around the thing. But I’ve never preached anything here. I’ve never said you’re immoral for watching or reading these stories. Morality and ethics for me is personal. Do I personally want to condone harmful rhetoric taking place and giving my money and thereby support for writers who realize that? No. Do I wish others would see that, too? Yes of course. How couldn’t I, after what happened to me. But I don’t control others. And I don’t control you. So at the end of the day it’s about the question:

What can I sleep with at night?

>It therefore doesn’t make sense to judge fictional characters at all

You can most definitely judge fictional characters. The book tells you actions they took, and sometimes the motivation behind them. What I said is that it doesn't make sense to judge the morality of a book, because, it's a book, not a person/character.

>Who said anything about evil?

I mean, as you said, clearly I did. You're putting too much emphasis on this. It was simply a term I used in the comment — one often used in the discussion of fiction — as opposed to repeating immoral another time. I'm not gong to get in to a discussion of definitions here, but it's worth noting that "immoral" plays quite a key role in the definition of evil.

>So for example the assaulter could face actual consequences for their actions

Lmao. At this point, we would need to make a distinction between different types of fiction (e.g. realistic, historical, fantasy etc.). I'll address those 3, and leave you to ponder the rest. In real life, it's very common for people who commit SA to face no consequences. You would limit authors writing realistic fiction from portraying that part of our world? I don't see the justification for that. The same argument applies for historical fiction. In regards to fantasy, you need to take in to consideration the world that has been created. Maybe there are gelded men, after being found guilty of rape. At the same time, if the king rapes a handmaiden and nothing happens, that's simply the way of the world in this society.

None of these situations reflect poorly on the author — unless you think an author deserves to be cancelled merely for being able to design a story where a rape occurs, which I think is an indefensible positon.

> romanticized
>
> thrown into the story casually, without preparation and often without the severity it deserves

I'm unclear what the point you're trying to make here is. I've already discussed why SA may be romanticized in a text. The person comitting the SA would likely see a romanticized version of the reality from their perspective. In many cases (where it's more akin to statuatory rape than rape) the second character involved may also view the reality from such a perspective. That does not mean the author thinks rape is romantic...

What severity does SA deserve? In some fantasy worlds, it may be very common. In more realistic fiction, you mentioned the 1 out of 6/7 yourself, that sounds more like an everyday thing than something deserving a lot of severity.

>They just consume and enjoy

People are free to enjoy whatever literature or film they want. If they read about rape, and then decide to commit sexual assault, that's not something you can possibly blame the author for. People make their own decisions.

>Do I wish others would see that, too

I think this is the problem with your stance on this post, and in the comments. This is a subjective matter, yet you present your stance as if its the morally superior, objectively correct position.

I'm sorry you have to go through that, but me, I sort of love dubious/non-consent and SA. Most books nowadays have trigger warnings in the beginning now, but I would go to Goodreads and read reviews to get a feel because people will often discuss it.

And at all times, avoid dark romance because dark romance is full of it