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Rahimus_ t1_iu6czht wrote

You’re not calling out sexual assault. Everything you’re mentioning is fictional. Nobody was sexually assaulted, because none of the characters exist.

If you don’t want to read stories where SA exists (as it does in the real world), that’s your prerogative, but don’t act like it’s some morally superior stance, it’s not.

Reading about sexual assault - no matter how explicit - isn’t immoral. It can be part of the story the author wants to convey. If you think the story must then itself be immoral, I’d urge you to reevaluate your position. A story containing an immoral person isn’t the same as the story being immoral (what would that even mean lol).

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enJ0eable OP t1_iu86tsx wrote

Maybe calling out isn’t the right word here, because you’re right, there’s no one TO call out. We can talk about whether or not some people here feel called out, but that is another story.

You are, of course, also right about fictional characters or a fictional story itself not being moral. Morality is tied to actions, choices, decisions. It therefore doesn’t make sense to judge fictional characters at all, we can only analyze their behavior or the imagery underlying it.

While you are the one bringing up morality here, not me (I merely suggested that sa’s popularity in media these days - like many people in these comments confirm! - makes my spine freeze), it’s still a relevant discussion to have.

In another comment you mentioned the word “evil.” Who said anything about evil? Immorally doesn’t equate evil, or a whole lot of people would have to be evil in the real world.

We’ve come closer to why morality still is questionable when sa is being turned into a romantic trope or dramatic plot device in another comment you made:

>Accountability for what? The sexual assault that didn’t happen? The age gap that doesn’t exist? You haven’t explained what’s inherently wrong with writing a story that contains SA. I don’t see a problem. A story is something the author imagined, and wants to share with the world. If that story includes rape, then so be it.

Like I said, only actions can be moral. Writing, publishing, marketing, selling are all actions made by real people. I also mentioned in my edit of the post my not minding SA in media if it’s handled responsibly. So for example the assaulter could face actual consequences for their actions, whether that be them going to jail, getting killed (historical or fantasy) or simply left by their partner who was the victim. Instead it’s become a plot device that in the worst case is romanticized (the age gap with the younger one being a child is the common choice here) and in the best case thrown into the story casually, without preparation and often without the severity it deserves. All the while viewers/readers continue to watch and celebrate such content. The writers know this of course, which is how they’re the ones making money.

If you still “don’t see the problem”, the most important part you’re not quite right about is this:

>Everything you’re mentioning is fictional. Nobody was sexually assaulted, because none of the characters exist.

Why, do you think, does a whole group of people (that might be larger than you realize) have to look up trigger warnings about SA at all? Why are there whole sides dedicated to this?

I have a feeling bringing up statistics isn’t going to do anything, but we know them all by now. 1 in 6/7. The story doesn’t contain real SA of course, but real life does. So does it contain impressionable young people who consume media in vast quantities, binge watching shows sometimes in one day. It also contains assaulters, r..ists and in some cases people who have the definition of SA wrong. Especially the latter is dangerous, because I’m sure the coworker I’ve mentioned earlier (and many others like this) sees even less of a problem with a child being with a grown person. This trope being acknowledged within a romance and not addressed as a problem can thereby leave small reminders in certain people, that their behavior is ok. Not everyone has the mental capacity, emotional intelligence or even the willingness to critically examine a character’s choice. They just consume and enjoy.

While I was growing up, another trope was pretty popular in basically all genres of film and TV. The “Keep fighting even after she says no” trope. A lot of men especially had that idea down to a T. My attacker included. He also didn’t stop after my no. Or the tenth. Or the 20th.

I like many others don’t look for trigger warnings because we slightly enjoy it less. We don’t even look for them because we think about morality in any way. We look for them to protect our brains and bodies from trauma wounds being opened.

And while I can feel the “but this is your trauma not mine” coming, I’ll lastly say this: Morality at the end of the day can be analyzed to death. Whole philosophies have been developed around the thing. But I’ve never preached anything here. I’ve never said you’re immoral for watching or reading these stories. Morality and ethics for me is personal. Do I personally want to condone harmful rhetoric taking place and giving my money and thereby support for writers who realize that? No. Do I wish others would see that, too? Yes of course. How couldn’t I, after what happened to me. But I don’t control others. And I don’t control you. So at the end of the day it’s about the question:

What can I sleep with at night?

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Rahimus_ t1_iu890dc wrote

>It therefore doesn’t make sense to judge fictional characters at all

You can most definitely judge fictional characters. The book tells you actions they took, and sometimes the motivation behind them. What I said is that it doesn't make sense to judge the morality of a book, because, it's a book, not a person/character.

>Who said anything about evil?

I mean, as you said, clearly I did. You're putting too much emphasis on this. It was simply a term I used in the comment — one often used in the discussion of fiction — as opposed to repeating immoral another time. I'm not gong to get in to a discussion of definitions here, but it's worth noting that "immoral" plays quite a key role in the definition of evil.

>So for example the assaulter could face actual consequences for their actions

Lmao. At this point, we would need to make a distinction between different types of fiction (e.g. realistic, historical, fantasy etc.). I'll address those 3, and leave you to ponder the rest. In real life, it's very common for people who commit SA to face no consequences. You would limit authors writing realistic fiction from portraying that part of our world? I don't see the justification for that. The same argument applies for historical fiction. In regards to fantasy, you need to take in to consideration the world that has been created. Maybe there are gelded men, after being found guilty of rape. At the same time, if the king rapes a handmaiden and nothing happens, that's simply the way of the world in this society.

None of these situations reflect poorly on the author — unless you think an author deserves to be cancelled merely for being able to design a story where a rape occurs, which I think is an indefensible positon.

> romanticized
>
> thrown into the story casually, without preparation and often without the severity it deserves

I'm unclear what the point you're trying to make here is. I've already discussed why SA may be romanticized in a text. The person comitting the SA would likely see a romanticized version of the reality from their perspective. In many cases (where it's more akin to statuatory rape than rape) the second character involved may also view the reality from such a perspective. That does not mean the author thinks rape is romantic...

What severity does SA deserve? In some fantasy worlds, it may be very common. In more realistic fiction, you mentioned the 1 out of 6/7 yourself, that sounds more like an everyday thing than something deserving a lot of severity.

>They just consume and enjoy

People are free to enjoy whatever literature or film they want. If they read about rape, and then decide to commit sexual assault, that's not something you can possibly blame the author for. People make their own decisions.

>Do I wish others would see that, too

I think this is the problem with your stance on this post, and in the comments. This is a subjective matter, yet you present your stance as if its the morally superior, objectively correct position.

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