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[deleted] t1_it7jh03 wrote

Reply to comment by mongreldogchild in Why are black people inexistant in the fantasy/sci-fi genre by hater_first

I never said it was made in a vacuum lol? I pretty explicitly stated people write about the things that interest them, their culture ties, etc. People are influenced and inspired by their heritage, where they live, etc. so obviously that is going to impact what they write about.

I’ve still yet to see a legitimate reason why someone from a particular culture/group can’t write a story about themselves and why you think you have the audacity to expect authors to check off a bunch of arbitrary boxes for who is included in their stories.

Europe is a very diverse place, I’m not sure where the slippery slope ends for how many groups have to be included for it to get your seal of approval.

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mongreldogchild t1_it7k3hs wrote

You didn't have to say it, it's implied. American authors writing about medieval fantasy European is their culture?

We aren't saying people aren't allowed to do anything. The fact you are reducing a question of why to trying to instigate erasing the opposite way is telling.

Why is it arbitrary?

What slippery slope is there? Are you telling me that if every form of media never depicted a white man you wouldn't be questioning it?

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[deleted] t1_it7ktbu wrote

Many white Americans are 1-2 generations removed from Europe. Modern fantasy authors likely grew up reading fantasy influenced by Europe. How do you not understand how this would influence what people are interested in writing about. Conversely, how many fantasy authors do you think can trace back their recent history to Africa?

The slippery slope is where does the list of who/what has to be included end? It isn’t up to individual authors to meet arbitrary distributions of people. How many blind people need to be included? Redheads? Lgbtq? Short people? Inuits? NASCAR drivers?

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mongreldogchild t1_it7n1nh wrote

And, yet, many white Americans are writing about fantasy cultures that do not exist and are based on European cultures they are not a part of. Funny.

It's almost like a system has been created that isn't based on what's interesting but what is allowed to continue.

Why do you think that there are less African fantasy authors? How many are authors and how many write for their own pleasure and never go further?

Yet, all the "arbitrary" people you talk about like redheads, short people, even nascar drivers have a tendency to be portrayed more frequently. Hm.

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[deleted] t1_it7ns35 wrote

Why do you think there are less white rappers? Do you think that is problematic? Funny that many rappers right about made up cultures and scenarios they aren’t part of.

See it works both ways.

If you think black people are underrepresented across media you are being either purposefully disingenuous or really have your blinders on.

It’s pretty simple - modern day sci-fin and fantasy are largely influenced by Europe, therefore they primarily feature European settings and draw influence from European rappers.

Go write the stories you want to see, idk what else to tell you lol

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mongreldogchild t1_it7og8a wrote

There are less white rappers because it's a genre created by black people that talks about the black experience and was created in the last 100 years. I guess you think that only Europeans know how to write? :(

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[deleted] t1_it7p2nj wrote

Good you’re almost there. Fantasy (largely high fantasy is what it seems OP is alluding to) is a genre that primarily came from European authors writing fiction around medieval Europe.

The great thing about being an adult, is just like any race can choose to write rap songs about wherever/whatever/whoever they want - any race can choose to write fantasy novels about wherever/whatever/whoever they want.

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mongreldogchild t1_it7pwn1 wrote

No, it didn't. It has existed for well over a 100 years and has roots in many cultures. Modern fantasy is definitely based on European writers, however. No need to be condescending when you can't even grasp basic concepts such as access.

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[deleted] t1_it89l2l wrote

To deny that white people essentially created and have contributed the most to what we view today as fantasy and sci fi is just historical revisionism and denial. This isn’t a good vs bad judgement, just statement of fact.

The same reason why rap has, until recently, been largely dominated by African Americans. They created the genre and have contributed the most to it.

No one had a problem with that, and the solution to bringing in more diversity was more people of other races immersing themselves in the genre and trying to become rappers. It wasn’t to ask African American rappers to be more inclusive/write about white people lol.

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mongreldogchild t1_it8c7xn wrote

I just said that modern fantasy is European based. Way to paint an argument as disingenuous as possible instead of attack the real one. Reread what I said. Fantasy, as a whole, has links to many cultures over many time periods. Fantasy is heavily related to mythology. Unless you think that only Europeans have magic and mythology related stories?

Once again, you are taking two examples of writing that don't relate. Rap and most poetry is highly personal. A fantasy story is not. To say otherwise is just wrong. Participation only matters when participation is allowed to exist. You have willfully ignored every point because it hurts your feelings. We can see that by saying that I'm trying to erase European history from the creation of the modern fantasy genre when that was never stated.

You keep running into the point and then walking away from it. There are societal factors that keep certain people from being able to write certain things with the same reach as others. You can argue that until your face is blue, but that's the truth. Modern standards on what fantasy should be keep out authors with different ideas. Modern standards and racial biases also keep out certain groups. Sociological factors also do which are semi-related to racism as well also keep out certain people from writing and being published. Is that so hard to understand?

Should we dance around the subject for a few more hours so you can prop up nonsensical examples like rapping about Czech Republic when the foundational precedent of rap is always a highly personal narrative and was made by and for a specific group of people in a way that writing (as a whole) and fantasy (as a whole) was not?

You have made arguments many times painting my side of the argument to mean that I want to force writers to only write what I want them to write, that I think a gun should be held to their head. No. Me and OP are asking a question. You are hilariously missing the point because the truth isn't convenient for you. White authors and white European fantasies are the norm. They sell better. They are published more. They have nothing systemically holding them back from the publishing industry in the same way. They are not held to the same standards and can write whatever they wish. They, like you and all of us, are subject to the world we live in which only cares about white Europeans. It isn't a statistical interest. It's a historical precedent based off of white supremacist colonialism from white Europeans to break it down to the most straightforward deconstruction of the argument.

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WTDWstonehenge t1_it8ic6n wrote

You’ve hit the nail on the head. Black people/POC are underrepresented because systemic racism. Simple. To argue otherwise is ignorant. (Obviously taking into account historical exceptions.)

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