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Noodles_Crusher t1_it7j6oq wrote

Reply to comment by mongreldogchild in Why are black people inexistant in the fantasy/sci-fi genre by hater_first

ok, I'll bite.

why aren't non white audiences supporting non white authors writing non white stories? In other words, why are people waiting for hands me down (like Disney is doing these days) instead of creating their own stories?

why are we expecting authors to create art catering to everyone?

On the same page, why is the WNBA waiting for men to watch the WNBA while women do not do that in the first place?

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mongreldogchild t1_it7jod2 wrote

Who has the money, owns the most capital to push certain stories? 🤔 Who owns the businesses that make it possible for something to become popular?

>why are we expecting authors

Why do you feel so attacked as to assume something from people asking a question? We aren't asking everything to be inclusive, we're asking why everything is exclusive.

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[deleted] t1_it7mx4u wrote

We’re you equally upset that popular rap music in the 80s and 90s didn’t tell stories about growing up in a small village in the Czech Republic?

Better go ask Nas and Dr. Dre why they won’t write songs about Europeans lol.

But let me guess - you have some convoluted reason why it is okay in one direction but not the other….

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mongreldogchild t1_it7oc2a wrote

Poetry and speculative fiction are two entirely different things.

There's a very big population of non-white people or even non-European people in the world. I'm glad that you think that representing even one of those groups who at least makes up half the global population is the same as the obscure experience of a small village in a small country in Europe.

Unfortunately for you, I am just as happy at the idea of the Czech people getting represented as any other group. You're the one who has a vested interest in defending ideologies that exclude them. :(

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TFTilted t1_it84yym wrote

It's not exclusion to be against diversity quotas. Let people write about what they want and stop worrying about representation. It really doesn't matter the way people want you to think it does. The only reason to push representation is if you have ulterior motives a la social engineering.

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theworldsucksbigA t1_it7l227 wrote

Everything is exclusive? Lmao you're just trying to find racism where there isn't any just like the OP their name is hater first, just looking for new hate. There's plenty of books that have black characters if you actually take the time to look for them instead of crying bout them not existing in the first place. Yes there's not an abundance of them but if you use some critical thinking/logical reasoning then you'll discover that vast majority of authors for those 3 genres are white. But you also got to think of what the culture is like aswell, America is predominantly white so there will of course be more white characters... go read stuff from authors of different countries.

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mongreldogchild t1_it7nm5k wrote

Greek Americans only make up 1% of the American population (I'm being generous here, as well, as I've seen as low as .5), yet I can find plenty of books that include me whether through realistic fiction, historical, science fiction, post apoc, and even societies based off of mine in fantasy. Why is my race so well represented in America when we are predominately not in America?

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theworldsucksbigA t1_it7oq38 wrote

Are you white skinned? Jesus you're reaching so far that your arm may become dislocated. Wasn't this discussion about skin color of characters in books and not where the characters lineage is from?

So which fantasy books are you reading that explicitly states the real world lineage of characters(to match skin color) and not just some statement about skin color?

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mongreldogchild t1_it7pevf wrote

Reread, king, your comprehension is busted. We were talking about EUROPEAN and specifically English medieval period being overly represented in this chain of comments. The talk was about how interest is based only on your heritage (somehow). So, why should I as a GREEK find any interest in other Europeans just because I am pale? (I am part Turk.) Yet, I don't have to find that. My SPECIFIC heritage is represented more so than the population should dictate.

It doesn't have to explicitly state lineage. When they are calling characters Castor and Acastus and Penelope and described with dark curly hair and dark eyes and olive skin, I know they are using my heritage as a building point for their fantasy culture.

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theworldsucksbigA t1_it7rzzs wrote

Lmao. No one said you have to find any interest in things that don't interest you, we're human we will like what we as an individual like. I believe this line of discussion was about the authors heritage influencing their works and not the heritage of the readers influencing the authors work. And those are just names, I had a white guy named dewayne that worked at my last job with me should he have been black or different ethnicity because of his name?

But I'm done with this convo, we'll just be going in circles from here based on your responses.

But here's some helpful guidance to hopefully help you and others that read this. Everyone is different, we are all human we bleed red when cut, stop seeing skin color or ethnicity or what someone believes in as proof that that person is this way or that, actually see the person in front of you and not some superficial fluff.

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mongreldogchild t1_it7skv1 wrote

Why jump into a conversation when you didn't even read what other participants said? I shouldn't have to break down all of your arguments into the context of the conversation for you. To say it's reaching that an entire society with Greek names, Greek appearance, Greek social mores, based off of what Ancient Greeks did with a pantheon similar to Ancient Greeks is note based on Greeks is insane. You just want to be right. You just want to hear yourself talk. Some guidance: instead of jumping into a conversation you refused to read when you just want to talk, buy a microphone and read aloud to yourself.

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theworldsucksbigA t1_it7srn0 wrote

Who said anything about Greeks besides you? Lmfao

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mongreldogchild t1_it7tdo0 wrote

I'll remind you of your argument for you:

You said: Most Americans are white, so their interest goes to white characters. Your implication being that the interest is based only on statistics not on other factors that go into this interest.

I said: I am Greek, and most white Americans are not Greek. Yet, American fantasy has a high saturation of Greek based fantasy despite the population. I asserted, because there are a lot of people interested in Greeks and a small minority of Americans are Greek means that the interest isn't about statistical presence in America.

You said: What is your skin color? Implying that because I am white, I should be interested in European cultures other than mine.

I said: But the whole premise you are defending states that it is about heritage. Why are Polish people interested in my Greek heritage? Why should I, a Greek, be interested in English fantasy?

You said: No one is talking about Greeks. Those Greek names could be anything, even though you specifically asked me to define how I knew the fantasy I read was talking about or referencing Greeks in some way.

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theworldsucksbigA t1_it7uncg wrote

Yeah the presence of characters and how they look is up to the author of the book and most authors in these genres are white. I seen a few of your comments on this post talking about you thinking someone is implying something. If you were following this thread then it started with how authors books are usually inspired by themselves and their history and that's why there are more white characters in these genres.

Edit but I'm done with this.

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mongreldogchild t1_it7w3se wrote

If its inspired by themselves, why are there so many Greek fantasies and characters and heritage represented when Greeks make up 1 or less % of the population and the authors themselves are not Greek?

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BlackNEwhite t1_it8q0q6 wrote

Are you unaware of the popularity and tradition of telling stories about Greek mythology? Xena the warrior princess, the Disney film Hercules etc. And that's just the super popular stuff.

Do you need help figuring out why writing stories in that same vein is popular among writers? Really?

Have you heard of money?

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mongreldogchild t1_it8vrf2 wrote

It's almost like that was my exact point. There is more than statistical presence of something that garners interest. If you'd taken even a passing interest in reading what I've written, you'd have seen that you should have been saying that to someone else besides me as that has been my point this entire time. No one here is of Greek heritage, yet they think that Greek heritage is popular in fantasy because of how many Greeks there are (in the same vein as their arguments towards other kinds of fantasy that focus on other European heritage).

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AtraMikaDelia t1_it8rayy wrote

Because Greece had more influence on modern western civilization than any other culture.

Even if the Greeks didn't personally make it to America in large numbers their influence certainly did

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mongreldogchild t1_it8vxeb wrote

It's almost like my point is that it has nothing to do with what someone has personally experienced or what is statistically "relevant". The use of the Greek canon and heritage to create fantasy worlds has nothing to do with Greek authors. The interest is formed from something else.

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TFTilted t1_it84l6w wrote

Everyone? Dude 1950s are over. Black people have money now, you know. just on my street alone there are probably 5 or 6 black millionaires who live in giant houses, God only knows how much money they have.

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mongreldogchild t1_it7mnew wrote

Also, I gotta say that it is mindboggling how you can use an example that literally has you stumbling into the point and ignorantly use it as proof of your point:

>On the same page, why is the WNBA waiting for men to watch the WNBA while women do not do that in the first place?

Women, from the time they are born, are not urged to move in the same way boys are. This happens from birth to death. We have proof of this. Boys are urged to do physical activities, watch physical activities, find comradery and even their own personhood in sports.

Girls, on the flip side, are rarely urged to do these things (once again, from the moment of birth) in the same way boys are. Women are told they are weaker and so it is pointless to perform these things. Women are discouraged from it (teenaged boys can beat you).

Funds, from school and onwards, are almost always dedicated to male participant sports. Self-perpetuating cycles.

Sociological factors win out. Why would women, who are actively discouraged in multiple ways for generations on a societal and individual level, from participating in sports be expected to consume enough sports media to hold up the industry they are actively discouraged from participating in, in every level?

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Noodles_Crusher t1_it7oaev wrote

you're just spouting the very same stereotypes that you're attributing to society as a whole: the difference in sport participation by gender is much lower than your comment would imply, and does not justify the lack of participation in sports entertainment at all:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/186929/participation-in-sports-activities-in-the-us-by-gender-and-age/

​

try again, maybe without parroting someone else's words this time.

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mongreldogchild t1_it7orp0 wrote

Whose words was I parroting?

Look at the statistics. Who is watching sports? Who is encouraged to be in sports as a career? Who is given funding? Who isn't? If women consistently make less and their sports is not watched and they make less because of this, do you think it has the same effect as male sports on men?

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Aldehyde1 t1_it888vn wrote

I love how you're telling someone to look at the statistics when they're the ones actually citing statistics and you're just spouting broad assertions. Why don't we take a look at the statistics? The WNBA makes 0.76% of the revenue of the NBA (despite its operating costs being subsidized by the NBA). Do you think that only 0.76% of women participate or are interested in sports? Well, 50-70% of women watch sports regularly depending on the country, according to last year's Global Sports Survey.

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mongreldogchild t1_it8b8br wrote

For one, their stats were behind a paywall and it wasn't just about sports but anything aerobic or strength gaining related. People who go to the gym do not equal people who are involved in or interested in sports. People who go on walks or do yoga does not equal people who watch sports.

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