I, Claudius vs. Claudius the God

Submitted by Dana07620 t3_yht0ub in books

I decided to reread these two books by Robert Graves to see if I was remembering them correctly. Turns out that I was...

I really enjoy the first book, I, Claudius, but the second book, Claudius the God, bores me and feels like mostly padding.

I, Claudius is 468 pages long and covered about 60 years. It starts under the Emperor Augustus, through Tiberius and Caligula and ends with Claudius becoming emperor. There is a hell of a lot that happens in it. Lots of characters. Lots of intrigues. Lots of murders and deaths.

Claudius the God is a way too long 544 pages even though it only covered the 13 years of Claudius' reign. I suppose because there wasn't enough to write about Claudius, Robert Graves decided to make Herod into a primary character. So we get a lot about Herod's history and what's going on with Herod in the East even though Herod was barely a character in the first book and very little of what happens to Herod is important to Claudius' story. For Claudius we get lots of details about his government policies and war strategy. Pages and pages and pages of it. So tedious.

When the adaptation was made of these two books, 10 episodes adapted the first book and only 3 episodes adapted the second book. And that's about the split it should have been.

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lordoftheborg t1_iufvrvs wrote

I'm just happy to see I, Claudius talked about. One of the best books ever written in the English language.

I thought Claudius, the God was okay but didn't live up to I, Claudius.

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johnnypanics t1_iuhlhq5 wrote

I'm currently reading I, Claudius and it's just one of those books you can't put down. To think I'd initially tossed it cause "I couldn't get into it".

Reading the book and watching the BBC series concurrently makes for the best experience IMO.

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lordoftheborg t1_iuhm2a1 wrote

I haven't seen the BBC series yet, I need to get around to that.

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TheGidbinn t1_iug1l77 wrote

It's been a while since I read them, but I don't agree with that assessment. I, Claudius is dense and often exciting but it can sometimes feel like a long list of things that happened. Claudius the God is paced a lot more slowly (often too slowly) but it allots it subjects more room to breathe. It works more as a character study. The ending represents a satisfying and genuinely affecting conclusion to Claudius's own character arc.

I would say that my biggest problem with both books is that our understanding of Roman history and how and why it was written has evolved a lot since the thirties, and it really shows, particularly with the characterisations of women like Livia and Messalina. I can't attribute that to Graves, though.

Now, if you see what a truly tedious Robert Graves novel looks like, read Count Belisarius...

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Dana07620 OP t1_iug24fl wrote

No thanks. Claudius the God was more tedious than I care to experience again in pleasure reading. Don't need more. But if Graves wrote more books like I, Claudius that could be something I'd be interested in.

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DoctorGuvnor t1_iugax0z wrote

Now, isn't that strange, I rather enjoyed Count Belisarius, but battled with 'Wife to Mr Milton'. And as for 'The White Goddess' - I struggled. But it was worth it.

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Mehitabel9 t1_iuflzqo wrote

I think I, Claudius is the better of the two, but I really like them both.

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Dana07620 OP t1_iufngtb wrote

Glad you did. Wish I did. But after this second reading I am quite sure that I don't.

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3rdRailPooper t1_iug9pjy wrote

I’m ridiculously happy that someone else loves I Claudius.

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Dana07620 OP t1_iugclzv wrote

Looks like a number of people do. So far it's got unanimous approval on this thread.

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AlunWeaver t1_iufk452 wrote

Huh. I always meant to read Claudius the God since I enjoyed I, Claudius so much and find Graves such a fascinating figure.

...might skip it now. Thanks for the heads-up. Was the adaptation of I, Claudius good?

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Dana07620 OP t1_iufktx4 wrote

The adaptation was fantastic.

Small scale as it's almost all filmed on sets. No crowd scenes. But the acting is the absolute best of British theater acting and the writing is superb. Streamlined from the books as it always has to be. But all the important stuff is there. That they could adapt Claudius the God in only three episodes tells you everything you need to know about how much important stuff was in the book.

Quite honestly, I'd say for the casual reader who enjoyed the first book to skip the second book and just watch the last three episodes of the adaptation if you want to know what happens in it.

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mrdannyg21 t1_iufxg9j wrote

I read them both a long time ago, and agree with the fully. I, Claudius was one of the most engaging books I can remember reading. Seems weird to cal it a ‘page turner’ considering the topic but I couldn’t put it down. Claudius the God was a bit of a slog, and could’ve been several hundred pages shorter.

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McJohn_WT_Net t1_iuflk3e wrote

Many, MANY years ago, I got a wonderful book called The Gay Book of Days by Martin Greif. It had small essays on historical figures who were/might have been LGBTQ+. I've always remembered his essay on Robert Graves. Apparently, Graves once said that his novels were his dog-and-pony show and were intended to maintain his cat, which was poetry. That might have some bearing on the common observation that Claudius the God is 99% stuffing.

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DoctorGuvnor t1_iugb2b0 wrote

'I keep my dog, prose, in order to feed my cat, poetry' is the exact quote - I always thought it was great. Thank you for reminding me.

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Dana07620 OP t1_iufnbno wrote

Sad to say that I didn't know he was a poet. If he weren't the writer of I, Claudius --- and had BBC not done that adaptation --- I doubt I'd even know of him.

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montims t1_iugb477 wrote

You've never read Good-Bye to all That? The best WW1 book ever. It is because I read that book so often (decades ago) that I read the Claudius books, White Goddess, etc.
None as good as Good-Bye, imo.

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Dana07620 OP t1_iugch0j wrote

No, only Graves I've read are the two Claudius books. And read those because the adaptation was so great that I wanted to read the source material.

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hannibalbaracka t1_iug3maj wrote

So, Robert Graves is my favorite author, and I just read Claudius the God a couple days ago.

I think both of them were fantastic, but I Claudius is one of those 6/5 books for me, while Claudius the God was just 5/5. What makes the books absolutely incredible is Graves' prose, as well as the great narration that Claudius provides.

But, he's obviously more incisive (intentionally, I presume) about characters other than himself, which makes the first book, where he's less actually in the spotlight, more interesting from a content perspective.

Anyway, that's my two cents on the matter, but I agree that I Claudius was the stronger

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Dana07620 OP t1_iugtypk wrote

Graves' prose is great. I agree.

It's his content that I didn't like.

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Jack-Campin t1_iufkw4y wrote

Haven't read them for a long time but neither dragged for me.

I wonder if Graves intended the Herod bits to lead up to King Jesus? That's an extraordinary book, far more ambitious than the Claudius ones.

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Dana07620 OP t1_iufn5jg wrote

Could be. In which case I wish that he'd put it in a separate book called I, Herod. Because, for me, all it does it clutter up the second book.

I'll have to Google King Jesus.

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redcardude t1_iug33kc wrote

I listened to both audiobooks, I really enjoyed both of them. If I had to listen to one again, I would choose I, Claudius. But it always feels like the first book in any series has more heart.

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mostlygray t1_iug5kgz wrote

I whole heartedly agree. I loved the series on TV when I was a kid. I read the books 20 years later and loved I, Claudius as much as the series.

Then I got so bored reading Claudius the God that I stopped. Much like the series, once Claudius is emperor, the story loses it's way and just kind of goes out with a whimper.

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KombuchaBot t1_iugu9ky wrote

I tried I, Claudius and found it unreadably mannered and pretentious. I think perhaps I may have been unfair to it, but it was such a letdown after Goodbye To All That, which is a genuinely extraordinary work and beautifully written.

The prose of Goodbye To All That is poetic, clear and immediate in how it anchors us in a vivid impression of time and place. It is also frequently funny.

​

>"Nor had I any illusions about Algernon Charles Swinburne, who often used to stop my perambulator when he met it on Nurses' Walk,at the edge of Wimbledon Common, and pat me on the head and kiss me; he was an inveterate pram-stopper and kisser. Nurses' Walk lay between The Pines, Putney (where he lived with Watts-Dunton) and the Rose and Crown public house, where he went for his daily pint of beer; Watts-Dunton allowed him tuppence for it and no more. I did not know Swinburne was a poet, but I knew he was a public menace."

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johnnypanics t1_iuhllp4 wrote

The BBC adaptation for I, Claudius has Herod as a frequent character. The book didn't have Herod but I understand they took that bit from Claudius the God possibly.

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maryjblog t1_iuftbvg wrote

I’ve heard that the sopranos was based on at least the first book, including some characters’ names. Any truth to this?

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Dana07620 OP t1_iug0c80 wrote

Never watched The Sopranos. Just scrolled through the cast list:

Livia -- evil matriarch who would do anything to put her blood in power. Does that seem like Livia Soprano?

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Friscogooner t1_iugrr3u wrote

I really enjoyed Goodbye to All that, but felt there might be more to the story than was related.

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