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JusticeCat88905 t1_isbcnud wrote

Reply to comment by BreakingBaldAmirite in Finished a fantastic new book - Of Boys and Men: Why the Modern Male is Struggling, Why it Matters, and What to Do about It. by Dawens

The ideas Patriarchy instills in men harms men full stop. That’s the argument.

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BreakingBaldAmirite t1_isbicbc wrote

So you're just gonna strip the entire bit where you say "be nicer to women and everything's gonna be better!", and the "maybe if they weren't supportive of the patriarchy they'd stop suffering!", as if it's not the entire reason I challenged your take in the first place? Heavily implying that the people who suffer, kill themselves, or express their frustrations in some way are actually just bad people (of course this will be a "leap" in logic for you, even if it's the logical next step). Then you had that weird bit about homophobia as if homosexuals aren't in even bigger danger of self-harm, carefully exposing the internet bubble you apparently live in, possibly due to being banished from Earth a few thousand years ago.

> The ideas Patriarchy instills in men harms men full stop.

Guys, it's the patriarchy, but it just happens to be that the line between the suffering and the beneficiaries can be drawn at an economical class level better than at a sex level.

You don't understand why these young men suffer. You don't understand (or care) why they're in pain and most of all you're concerned with your own goals. Ironically, this it the same level of compassion they get in their daily lives, and why they suffer in the first place.

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JusticeCat88905 t1_isbkvki wrote

So most of the first part is just absurd and doesn’t even address anything I’ve said really. To jump from me saying “behavior enforced and rewarded by patriarchy harms men” to “I think men who kill themselves are bad people” when at no point have I even discussed suicide, and there are huge gaps that you need to fill to get from A to B just saying “that’s the natural conclusion” isn’t enough when you don’t even understand the point I’m making.

What’s funny about you identifying class as being more impactful than patriarchy is you ignore than patriarchy is a product and tool of class oppression, which is why consciousness is required to overcome these issues, because they are largely products of the contradictions between a class society and liberation, and even seeing that requires at least a basic level of class consciousness and or historical material analysis

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