Hello! I would still need to get to your books, but in general my two part question will be "How and why did you decide to work on this genre? Why do you think it's important for us as humans?"

I loved Monster, She Wrote!

In your experience, do you think different types of people gravitate to different types of horror? Is there 'starter' horror?

I can watch or read all the slasher horror I want, but anything that involves ghosts, zombies, or aliens are a no-go zone for me. I was also scarred by mummy documentaries as a kid.

I've always enjoyed horror and the occult, even as a child. As I've read/watched more horror, I realize how much it relies on empathy. We, as readers and viewers, feel the character's fear. It's a powerful thing! I think this is just one reason why it is important. That also was evident in our study of occult history. -LK

Hello! What similarities do you find in witchcraft/ the occult across cultures?

What are your favorite horror novels that we all should read?

MRA: I'm so happy to hear you loved MSW! I do think different people gravitate to different types of horror. There's a perception that Horror means one thing, like slasher or zombie movies, but there are so many subgenres of horror that I think anyone can find a niche. I've always been into supernatural stories. I still prefer to read horror rather than watch it; there's something about viewing a scary or violent image that is more intense for me.

I thought of another question, ha ha! Recently I’ve noticed an uptick in interest in occult subjects (for lack of a better explanation). I’m seeing lots of interest in tarot cards, astrology, witchcraft, etc., even amongst people that may not have been interested in it before. Is this just a thing that I’m noticing, or is it a broader trend? And why the increased interest now?

That's a really interesting question! Our research really only looked at a narrow sliver of the occult, focusing on "mainstream" United States, so I can't fully answer that. One thing, though, that I can say is that the occult is often "hidden" (literally from the definition of the word occult) from or in opposition to the mainstream society. It all seemed to be a kind of rebellion against white patriarchy, offering power to those who normally wouldn't have access to it (women, nonbinary, LGBTQ, and people of color). -LK

Thank you! I’ve found that to be the case in the little research I’ve done myself!

Oh no! There's too many to name! We put a lot of our favorites by women in our first book, Monster, She Wrote. I think everyone should read We Have Always Lived in the Castle by Shirley Jackson and The Good House by Tananarive Due. Those are two of my top favorites. Andy Davidson is writing some really interesting ones right now. AND I recently read Tender is the Flesh and absolutely devoured it (no pun intended). -LK

MRA: My favorites are always changing, so I can give you a few that either have stuck with me over the years or that I've been into lately. My all-time favorite is Shirley Jackson's The Haunting of Hill House. I've also enjoyed T Kingfisher's The Twisted Ones and What Moves the Dead. With the Gothic coming back to the fore lately, Rebecca by Du Maurier is a great classic read. And I always try to mention Tananarive Due's The Good House when asked this question.

Thanks for your question! -LK

I think we are noticing it more now due to social media and the internet. AND because companies are realizing that there is a market for occult products (so capitalism will always follow the trends when that is concerned). But I think the current moment is also an interesting one. People are leaving organized religion (evangelical Christianity especially) in large numbers, and I think it is natural that they are seeking spiritual subjects elsewhere after they deconstruct their faith. At least that's a theory I have. There are some numbers to support that, but I imagine time will tell. -LK

I sometimes find that people who don't like "horror" often like it when it is mixed with other genres. So a thriller/horror like Caroline Keynes's You series might fit the bill. Or something with more mystery in it, or even romance or comedy (I think of authors like Rachel Harrison and Grady Hendrix, who both blend genres well). I have my "no-go" lists too! There are certain things I can't do in horror (like gore when it involves fingernails or feet--or dolls. No way.) -LK

MRA: I agree with Lisa here on empathy and humans' shared experience of fears. For me, I came into this genre through ghost stories. I was fascinated by how they could communicate history or stories about the past through a fictional lens. Hauntings are good metaphors for things in the past we ignore or can't deal with. And throughout literary history, horror lit is often a reaction to the larger or previous literary movement, trying to remind us to pay attention to things going on in the real word. We discuss this a bit in Monster She Wrote.

MRA: I definitely think that social media is helping to fuel this trend and helping people communicate with each other about these topics. And yes, when capitalism gets involved, those trends expand into the marketplace. I think there's been a gradual opening of acceptance of the occult with the expansion, too. We are always hearing that Americans are describing themselves more and more as spiritual but not involved in organized religion. This is one of the avenues for that search.

Hi there! In addition to the horror novels you suggested in response to another comment, is there any academic writing on horror that you'd recommend to enthusiastic readers?

Hi! If you are interested in academic writing on horror, I HIGHLY recommend Scott Poole. His newest one is fantastic, but all of his books are really great. -LK

Curious to know how you came to combine horror/the occult with history. Interest-wise, did one lead into the other?

MRA: Yes, Poole's work is fantastic. I recently read his book on horror and the First World War period. Critics who are cited often are Carol Clover (Men, Women, and Chainsaws) and Robin Wood. Bernice M. Murphy writes about Shirley Jackson but also suburban horror.

Thank you both so much for doing this! I just wanted to say I LOVED Monster, She Wrote! I will be reading your new book too. I looked you both up on Goodreads. Could you tell me a little about your earlier book that focused on Shirley Jackson?

MRA: As a fan of ghost stories, I've always been interested in the way horror can be a veil for telling history, or an angle for viewing it. So I guess my interest in the supernatural came first. During research for past projects, including Monster, She Wrote, I became aware of the connections between historical moments and the occult. An example of this is the rise of Spiritualism and its connections to the feminist movement of the 19th century, a topic that has been written about by scholars like Ann Braude and Molly McGarry.

Thank you so much for reading MSW! The book that we edited on Shirley Jackson is a collection of academic essays called Shirley Jackson, Influences and Confluences. It looks at not only what influenced her writing but also how her work influenced others. There's an essay that looks at FUN HOME as a queer Gothic text, for instance, and another that connects SJ to modern horror films like Stoker (which is so wonderful). That latter one is from the scholar Bernice Murphy, who does a lot of SJ scholarship. -LK

I've loved horror since I was little and my grandmother showed me the old horror film House of Wax with Vincent Price. I've been hooked ever since. I think because so many movies and stories dealt with the occult, it was just a natural progression for me. My interest in how all that connected with history, however, really only came after enrolled in graduate school. -LK

I will definitely be checking out your books. Were there any people/stories you had to cut from Toil and Trouble that you wish you could have kept?

You've already answered your fave books so how about your favorite horror movies?

MRA: In an early draft, we had a section on early to mid-20th century witch movies that we ended up cutting a lot of or using pieces of it for background in profiles. This was because, for a brief time, we had a kind of pop culture angle in addition to the profiled people, but that shifted quickly to a focus on the figures.

MRA: A few horror movies I enjoy: The Birds, The Haunting (1963), and The Others. I'm also fan of the classic Universal monster films and Godzilla movies.

Thank you both! I'll take a look at Scott Poole and the others.

We tackled so many people/subjects in this book, and honestly, each one could've been a book in itself. So a lot gets cut, unfortunately. Like Melanie said, we did have a lot more on witch representations in movies and pop culture that I wish we could've kept. There was even some more detailed witch representations earlier than that (like Mother Shipton stories) that we had to cut. And I had a lot more to say about the dangers of the occult prejudice in the Satanic Panic (like the West Memphis Three) that I wish I could've written more on. Maybe in another book!

As for movies, I love so many! The Shining is a "classic" horror favorite (so is Jaws). For newer ones, I love Ti West's films (going back to House of the Devil) and The Invitation (the one directed by Karyn Kusama). This year, I've loved Fresh, Barbarian, and Speak No Evil. -LK

Thanks for your question!

Many years ago I took an undergrad feminist film theory course focused on horror that mostly went over my head at the time. It covered a lot of issues with horror films like female protagonists having to transform to take on typically masculine characteristics in order to succeed, the femme fatale, vaginina dentata, and so on.

Anyway, my question is this: horror films have obviously improved since the 80s, but are there still many issues in the depiction of non-male or 'other' characters?

Shining is probably my all time fave but The Lighthouse could give it a run for its money (so could The VVitch if I could understand the thick accents). Haven't seen his earlier stuff but I did enjoy X and Pearl.

Haven't watched The Birds in forever, will have to remedy that soon.

That's interesting, you could probably do a whole other book just on pop culture representations.

You are right that things are improving. But there still are a lot of issues. For one, women and people of color are often the victims, and sometimes the violence against them can feel like a disturbing fantasy, which I do not like to see on screen. Also, there are some real issues (for me anyway) with "strong female characters." I like to see women and nonbinary and queer characters as the hero, but I don't love that we still define "strong" as "like a straight white man." But things are changing. It helps to seek out movies by women and creators who aren't white. The Babadook showed a great example of female strength. And Nia DaCosta's Candyman is breaking that stigma too. -LK

Out of all the people you included in TOIL AND TROUBLE, whose account was the most interesting or surprising to you?

Robert Eggers is doing some really interesting things!

And yes, X and Pearl were fantastic. I can't wait for Maxxxine! -LK

MRA: It's definitely something to think about. Thank you for the questions!

Hello! LOVE your book! Who do you think is the most misunderstood woman or nonbinary person in occult history?

Also, which person in the book would you have liked to meet in person?

MRA: It's always hard to pick one, so I'll give a shout out to two people. I was intrigued by Madame Marcia Champney, who was an astrologer and clairvoyant and said she was consulted by First Lady Florence Harding during the Harding administration. She also tangled with Houdini at the congressional hearings on fortune telling in the 1920s. The other person is Rose Mackenberg, who was an investigator who joined Houdini in his quest to investigate, and often debunk, mediums who they thought were preying on grieving people. She testified in the hearings mentioned above.

That's a really interesting point. I often hear my students enjoying novels or shows because of the strong female characters, but I will have to dig a little deeper and ask them about what traits they are using to define "strong". I am actually surprised that is still very prevalent in all genres and not just horror, I'll have to pay more attention.

Thanks for the recommendations!

That's an excellent question! There's probably multiple answers I could give here since the occult is largely misunderstood in general. But I'll go with Tituba, who was the enslaved person at the center of the Salem Witch Trials in the 1690s. I've often heard people talk about her as some kind of witch or voodoo practitioner, when in reality, we simply don't know much about her. It's likely that everything she was accused of was made up (due to people's "othering" of her). And she agreed to the charges, inventing her own stories of the devil, in order to save her own life. If she did participate in anything "occult," it was likely only fortune-telling games that she played with the children that she cared for. -LK

I'd love to see how they define strong! Nothing wrong with a strong woman--I just want to see strength shown in many different ways (not just physically). -LK

MRA: Writer Margaret St. Clair. I've loved her work since I first read some of it while researching women who wrote for genre pulp magazines. I've read one mini-bio she wrote of herself and a couple short excerpts from interviews, and I would've loved to have been able to go to a reading and signing of hers, or just chat with her for a bit.

I am intrigued by any woman (like Madame Marcia) who uses the occult to gain access to those who hold political power. I loved researching Joan Quigley, who was an occult advisor of sorts during the Reagan administration. -LK

Cassandra Peterson! I'm a lifelong Elvira fan. -LK

Thanks to everyone for the great questions! This has been fun!

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I really enjoy Grady Hendrix, and Caroline Kepnes! And I'm reading Cackle right now :) 'entry' horror I guess

> I still prefer to read horror rather than watch it; there's something about viewing a scary or violent image that is more intense for me.

I completely agree; I feel as though I could read anything and not quite be as affected as watching it on screen. Though I have a scene from Hokuloa Road (read recently) burned into my brain...