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future_shoes t1_j9an56o wrote

Not to continue beating on you about The Illiad "spoiler" part but that is just a really strange thing to be upset about. Hector's death and the Trojans losing is something that is/should be safely assumed to be known by general public and is fair game as a literally reference. It's on the line with the Don Quixote fighting windmills, Dr. Jekyll being Mr. Hyde, Beowolf killing Grendel, the ending of Moby Dick, Dracula being a vampire, etc.

Also on a side note, I don't think many people actually intend to read the Illiad or Odyssey straight through, they are massive books which rely heavily on knowledge of ancient Greece and Greek mythology for you to fully understand them. Most people read excerpts in an academic setting or are familiar with the general series of events (like Hector dying and the Greeks winning) through their ubiquitousness in other more modern works.

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ViolinistPerfect9275 t1_j9dpu9u wrote

>Don Quixote fighting windmills, Dr. Jekyll being Mr. Hyde, Beowolf killing Grendel, the ending of Moby Dick, Dracula being a vampire

Maybe chuck up a spoiler warning next time smh

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Bridalhat t1_j9aoo8t wrote

Which incidentally is how most people in antiquity interacted with the works! Festivals would have contests for the recitation of Homer and bards would choose sections that suited their talents, and stories that take place in and around the Trojan War were ripe for adaptation by tragedians (various Iphigenias before the Trojan War, some Ajaxes during and Aeschylus’s Myrmidons took place during the Iliad, and the Orestian cycle after). On top of that people would order only certain books of the Iliad and Odyssey (Iliad II the most popular then and least popular today). Most educated people probably sat down with the entirety of Homer eventually, and many people had it memorized, but most people’s first interactions with the Trojan War myth were piecemeal.

Spoilers are so, so beside the point.

ETA: you mentioned people not reading Homer through all the way. Even if they did they wouldn’t be getting the whole story! The Iliad starts in the ninth year of the war (so no judgment of Paris, no abduction of Helen, no sacrifice of Iphigenia), and takes place over a few weeks and ends with the death and funeral of Hector. Achilles and Ajax deaths and the Trojan horse and fall of Troy all occur offpage between the Iliad and the Odyssey. These were only episodes in a much larger story (and I don’t even think the so-called epic cycle covered all of it).

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outsellers OP t1_j9ap94r wrote

Exactly she assumes her audience is dumb, and won't read it. The reality though is that it has half a million ratings on Goodreads. She's basically calling people dumb by spoiling the Illiad, that's what people aren't understanding.

This book has been called pretentious many times, and I tried to steer away from that train of thought throughout reading it, but the fact she just throws that out there is what justified my thought on this.

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future_shoes t1_j9aqwxx wrote

Exactly what? Also I don't get how she is calling someone dumb by "spoiling" the Illiad. Wouldn't it be the opposite of calling someone dumb, isn't she assuming you have some basic knowledge of the Illiad? Would she be calling someone dumb if she referenced Moby Dick by saying that someone's obsession will lead to their down fall like it did for Captain Ahab?

Also, I don't think the Illiad can really be "spoiled". The whole thing was written with the understanding that the audience already knows all the events and the outcome. It would be similar to say someone is spoiling a story about the Titanic by saying the boat sinks. Or someone referring to the story of Job when talking about a series of tragedies that befalls a character.

Edit: an additional thought. If you do intend on reading the Illiad then she actually did you a favor. Like I said the Illiad is written assuming everyone knows the outcome. This makes the Trojans and Hector an even more tragic series of figures as you know they are doomed. Homer uses this knowledge of the reader to make a better story.

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Bridalhat t1_j9b4ykk wrote

Homer never says that Astyanax, the son of Hector, is doomed, but the scene where he is scared of his father in a helmet and Hector takes it off and talks about how he hopes his son has a happier life than him is 10x more affecting when you know that won’t be the case.

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pauvrelle t1_j9g1f8p wrote

You were doing great, but this is the comment that gives it away that you’re a troll.

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