[No spoilers] The dialogue in The Brothers Karamazov is giving me whiplash

Submitted by FlyingPasta t3_11e85y9 in books

Still making my way through the book (penguin classics, book XI Ch 4) and the dialogue takes some getting used to. Most characters, maybe all outside of Alyosha, immediately turn it up to 11 with exclamations, severe passion, extreme drama and what seem like constant changes in mood/intent partway through their paragraph of dialogue. Are all characters constantly on the edge of meltdown/ecstasy or am I reading the tone wrong? Is it the translation? Is it commentary on how the seculars are driven mad? Or is it just the style of narrative? Fyodorovich, Mitya, Lize, Mrs Khokhalkova, Grushenka and especially Illyusha’s father (among others) seem completely unhinged most of the time. Some of them make sense for certain situations. The only relaxed and rational characters seem to be Zosima and Alyosha

I speak Russian, translating bits of it in my head doesn’t really make it make much sense either. Maybe I know the language but not the style/literary context

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Notcoded419 t1_jacx9ov wrote

That's kind of how Dostoevsky rolled. Everyone acts with a level of angst that makes 90s grunge look stoic.

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wordyshipmate82 t1_jadfbp4 wrote

Indeed, and I love Dostoevsky, but this is one of the main reasons that Nabakov was not a fan, and taught his Russian Lit students that D was a lesser Russian writer. I enjoy him more than Tolstoy, for instance, but I understand the critique.

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thrasymacus2000 t1_jae9tyo wrote

This is reassuring to me. OP is experiencing the exact same thing I went through. Every sentence is a long slobbering rambling soliloquy. I thought maybe novels were imitating theatre plays and so this is what people were expecting at the time, but I know other books from the time and much older that still read as more conversationally contemporary than Brothers K.

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fckuse t1_jacxuq1 wrote

you're reading 19th century literature with a 21st century brain - dial it back

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FlyingPasta OP t1_jad40eh wrote

If that’s the reason then that’s the reason, just making sure I’m not missing anything 😛

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brief_interviews t1_jadog6w wrote

Dostoevsky's characters tend to be 'heightened' rather than realistic. Most of them have rich, complicated inner lives and are also symbolic of larger cultural or philosophical ideas, so this style makes it clear why everyone is doing what they're doing when they clash with each other.

From a contemporary eye it looks like everyone is one outburst away from going nuts, but that's because these characters are not actually in control of themselves for the most part, they're ruled by their passions and inner contradictions, half of which are caused by the pressures of society and inherited trauma that they may or may not be aware of. Dostoevsky's recurring themes are how actions are driven by ideas so we should be careful what we think, and this dramatic style works well for that theme, though it certainly isn't subtle.

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OkLead9868 t1_jaecfls wrote

But that’s the thing. People are complex. You cannot look at another person and really know who they are or what is going on in their mind. There are people who act happy and nice and one day commit suicide. The human mind is complex and our interactions, motivations ideas that come along with that are complex. I think he writes characters at more extremes to represent ideas more than purely real people because it allows you to see what motivates people. It gives a different perspective by him writing like that. It makes you think outside the box.

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bonsai_skinnydip33 t1_jacqkhe wrote

That’s kind of how I interpreted it my head was that pretty much all the characters with the exception of Alyosha are very intense and dramatic. I enjoyed it though cause it made for a super crazy family dynamic.

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BinstonBirchill t1_jadmafw wrote

It’s an intentional decision on his part to write the characters like that. It’s part of what gives you a picture of these characters. If you look up an old Russian version of the movie you’ll see just how unhinged they appear in the Russian as well.

Dostoevsky himself had a crazy life, ordered to be executed with a last minute reprieve, suffered epilepsy, depression, and paranoia. He wasn’t going for realism but more in conversation with other writers of the time and probably his own experience of life.

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FlyingPasta OP t1_jadpqup wrote

Thanks! Yeah I’ve heard about the last minute reprieve, how that affects a person must be nuts.

Definitely going to search up that movie!

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stavigoodbye t1_jad8wvx wrote

This is one of my favorite books but it didn't really reach that status for me until I read it twice. I think you start to get a better feel once you understand the characters and their motivation. Then you can re-read it and dig more into their meanings.

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_Potente_ t1_jadk238 wrote

This is exactly how I felt reading “Crime and Punishment.” I get it’s from a far different time, but I have a hard time believing anyone actually talked like that

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Deferential_dreams t1_jadp605 wrote

The book is meant to be entertaining and doesn’t strive for absolute realism. The characters being dramatic is completely intentional.

In fact, it’s hard to think of many creative works that don’t feature overly dramatic characters. Everyone in any Shakespeare play or most characters in modern film and TV, for example. Think of the “I am the one who knocks” scene from Breaking Bad - excellent stuff, but no one talks like that in real life.

And one thing that doesn’t come through in some translations is that the book is supposed to be really funny at times. Obviously there are serious moments and philosophical moments, but a lot of the book is supposed to be goofy. Several parts made me laugh out loud.

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FlyingPasta OP t1_jadq1rj wrote

Agh yeah u fortunately the goofyness seems to get lost in the confusion, although couple parts did make me chuckle.

Gotta grow some chest hair and read it in Russian, just that my reading level has fallen to around grade 4 probably (or fourth class of gymnasium as they’d say)

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Deferential_dreams t1_jadrjvd wrote

I have that same dilemma.

My Spanish is conversational, but there are enough gaps in vocabulary that I have to have a dictionary open to read anything too challenging in Spanish.

My French is excellent, but I still read about half the speed in French compared to my native English. I’ve been putting off reading the Count of Monte Cristo for years because I don’t want to read it in English but I don’t want to commit to a slow reading of nearly 900 pages. It would probably take me 3-6 months.

I don’t know which you have, but the Pevear & Volokhonsky translation of BK is wonderful.

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FlyingPasta OP t1_jaes9r7 wrote

I’ve got the penguin classics edition, already had it so it was too late to pick the best. I did get P&V’s Crime and Punishment though :)

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