Viewing a single comment thread. View all comments

Cunninghams_right t1_j0h11hm wrote

Reply to comment by jabbadarth in Why isn't there red light cameras on every single intersection? by canipetyourdog420

there is no "properly time lights". it's an over-constrained system, meaning you get 1, maybe 2 streets in the whole city that can be timed well and the rest of the city will have to be out of synch.

−5

saltyjohnson t1_j0h8xul wrote

Proper timing does not require synchronization. The situation could be drastically improved by a citywide overhaul to add sensors to non-priority streets. In the short-term, simply adjust timers to give those streets ten seconds every minute (or something along those lines).

The problem isn't bad synchronization, it's that you have to sit at a red light for 30 or more seconds with no opposing traffic.

16

Dr_Midnight t1_j0hf2if wrote

>Proper timing does not require synchronization. The situation could be drastically improved by a citywide overhaul to add sensors to non-priority streets. In the short-term, simply adjust timers to give those streets ten seconds every minute (or something along those lines).

Absolutely.

Hell, in the intermediary, a significant improvement would be to also shift some intersections from controlled signals to flashing red and yellow lights in the late night hours (2:30 - 5 AM).

Also, we need some traffic circles (roundabouts) in this region -- but done properly, unlike that dangerous joke of one in Charles Village.

>The problem isn't bad synchronization, it's that you have to sit at a red light for 30 or more seconds with no opposing traffic.

"30 Seconds"

* Laughs in Sinclair Lane *

There's that and taking literally 10 minutes to take Lombard from President to MLK at 3AM without a single other car on the road if you catch so much as one red light because you'll be sitting at a red light in - without exaggeration - every signal thereafter.

We've likewise all seen the hell scape that Downtown becomes during the day - though nothing is fixing that short of reducing demand -- aka: rail. If only there was a fully studied, fully funded rail line that ran East / West and could reduce demand by providing an incentive for others to park in the I-70 park and ride, and commute in from there. Perhaps we could even color it red.

I hate to say it because I've talked about the lack of enforcement of traffic laws and vehicle codes here for years (and I maintain that photo enforcement is not a solution), but this city's infrastructure passively encourages bad behavior.

1

DONNIENARC0 t1_j0hnabo wrote

I think I've just given up hope that Americans will ever be able to properly negotiate a roundabout.

The one in Towson isn't even complex and I still manage to see multiple people fuck it up badly every time I use it.

2

saltyjohnson t1_j0hzjjd wrote

> I hate to say it because I've talked about the lack of enforcement of traffic laws and vehicle codes here for years (and I maintain that photo enforcement is not a solution), but this city's infrastructure passively encourages bad behavior.

This is exactly it. Enforcement doesn't solve the problems caused by bad design. We shouldn't need to write tickets for running a red light, because the light should only be red when there's opposing traffic preventing you from going anyway. We shouldn't need to write tickets for speeding, because the street should be designed such that you feel uncomfortable driving any faster than the posted speed limit. With well-designed infrastructure, we'd only need to rely on enforcement for the most egregious of violations.

2

bookoocash t1_j0ivv3v wrote

I know this is bad, but whenever I see a dislocated bumper and other debris laying nearby traffic calming infrastructure, a part of me is filled with glee because some dipshit done learned they need to slow down.

1

Cunninghams_right t1_j0he89g wrote

you're assuming the goal of traffic timing is to maximize the speed of the people on the street. that isn't necessarily the case. you're also assuming that you don't have to design for the 1% case where there is some traffic diversion or something. without sensors, timing has to be done in a way that isn't optimal for normal conditions so that it's not a total shit-show in the rare case. sensors are great but very expensive to build and maintain.

the reality is that car-centric city design is just stupid and a waste of time. more cars and faster cars never made any location better. culs de sac exist specifically because people like cars for themselves but hate everyone elses' cars. if we're contemplating spending a fortune adding and maintaining sensors, we should first just build bike lanes everywhere and officially allow the Idaho stop. everyone will get to where they are going faster, greener, and with less expense. cars should take a back seat.

−1

saltyjohnson t1_j0hkaia wrote

> you're assuming the goal of traffic timing is to maximize the speed of the people on the street.

I'm doing no such thing lol. We're in a thread talking about people who run red lights. One reason people run red lights is because they're waiting while there is no cross traffic. Breaking the rules a little bit leads to breaking the rules a lot which leads to the chaos we have in our roads today. The only thing that will stop that without better infrastructure design is impounding offending vehicles, because rich people don't give a shit about tickets and poor people can't afford to pay tickets.

I am 100% in favor of eliminating stupid car-centric design. I'd even support complete closure of most one-lane alleys to automobiles to provide protected pathways for bicycles and pedestrians. Making traffic signals work better for cars is not exclusive of fixing car-centric design. Better timing will benefit pedestrians and cyclists too. All the protected bike lanes in the world won't make for a safe cycling experience if cyclists have to cross intersections with bad timing and no sensors in a city where drivers are conditioned to run red lights.

3

Cunninghams_right t1_j0hn9tm wrote

>I'm doing no such thing lol. We're in a thread talking about people who run red lights. One reason people run red lights is because they're waiting while there is no cross traffic. Breaking the rules a little bit leads to breaking the rules a lot which leads to the chaos we have in our roads today. The only thing that will stop that without better infrastructure design is impounding offending vehicles, because rich people don't give a shit about tickets and poor people can't afford to pay tickets.

I appreciate that you're not a car-brain. however, even busy places like Manhattan have people violating red lights constantly. it's not a question of whether or not there is cross traffic, it's that there are no consequences for breaking the rules, as you point out. though, I think you under-estimate how many people would fix their behavior if they were ticketed. certainly not everyone, but many.

−3

saltyjohnson t1_j0hy6qf wrote

> it's not a question of whether or not there is cross traffic, it's that there are no consequences for breaking the rules

Poor infrastructure design leads to rulebreaking. Being forced to stop and wait at a red light while there is no cross-traffic is a failure of infrastructure design. Every ticket written for running a red light is a failure of infrastructure design. A driver wouldn't be able to run a red light if a light only turned red to permit cross-traffic.

Yes, we desperately need better enforcement of basic traffic laws in this city, but that is not what will not fix a culture of dangerous driving. Another downside is that it will increase hostile police interactions, which definitely won't help anything.

3

Cunninghams_right t1_j0i06vf wrote

>Poor infrastructure design leads to rulebreaking. Being forced to stop and wait at a red light while there is no cross-traffic is a failure of infrastructure design. Every ticket written for running a red light is a failure of infrastructure design. A driver wouldn't
>
>be able to run a red light if a light only turned red to permit cross-traffic.

I disagree. first, as I noted above, Manhattan has constant cross traffic but people violate the red lights constantly. second, I'm pretty confident that people will try to squeeze through a light that just turned red regardless of whether there was cross traffic (as OP points out, having to not proceed on their green light because there are people in the intersection running the red). the infrastructure could maybe help some, but the cases where people pull up to the light, there is no cross traffic at all, then drive through the red are not the problem cases (most of the time). the problem cases are people flying through red lights after the other direction turned green and wants to go, or as happens at an intersection near me, people go when it turns green and get t-boned or clipped by people thinking they can make it because it just turned red and most of the time the traffic that has the green will wait for them. that kind of accident isn't solved by the timing of the lights, it's solved by behavioral correction.

1