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A_Damn_Millenial OP t1_iwzzjs4 wrote

Reply to comment by JAREDAGO in First time seeing the 2002 Baltimore Region Rail Map. Moore, make it happen! by A_Damn_Millenial

It’s a shame because they really ought to have a better transit connection to BWI, MARC, & Amtrak.

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gaytee t1_ix00lht wrote

Anyone living in hoco has a car because you can’t live there without one. This is literally intentional. Not to mention, they don’t ride Marc or Amtrak either. Finally, they can afford the Uber from their front door to the curb at BWI, or the expensive covered parking. If you can’t get to their hood without a car, the chances of people riding transit to do rachet shit falls. They don’t have transit because they don’t want people living there who need it.

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A_Damn_Millenial OP t1_ix03rtr wrote

I understand HOCO was originally designed for the car and has a rich history of closet racists, classist, NIMBYS, and car brains who would oppose change.

However, I disagree with the implication that current residents won’t ride GOOD transit if they had it. Continuing to design communities around private vehicle travel is a short-sighted mistake, and I would imagine HOCO and state planners know it.

The density & 15-minute living currently available at the Town Center is precisely where transit oriented development should be. Regardless of how snooty you might think HOCO residents are, they’re still humans who have jobs, relationships, etc. around the region. If they have access fast, reliable, and frequent transit connections to reasonable and valuable destinations (not a fucking park and ride), then they’ll use it.

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DfcukinLite t1_ix073qv wrote

Can’t speak for the totality of Howard county, Edward Norton’s grandfather developed Columbia, and then Reston, to be the first mixed income planned community centered around a town center. That’s where the “EQUALITY” stickers come from.

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youre_soaking_in_it t1_ix0k0b8 wrote

Welp, he's dead now.

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arbivark t1_ix0ri45 wrote

Ed Norton has a movie with a somewhat fictionalized Robert Moses, city planner of new york, as the villain. His grandfather being a city planner would explain his interest.

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throws_rocks_at_cars t1_ix05erk wrote

Baltimore doesn’t have the institutional knowledge nor the resources to build “GOOD transit”, let alone transit at all.

The only way they’re going to get a metro line out to HoCo and other nimby enclaves is if they build out significant metro connections within the city and a decade of growth leaves HoCo behind (the same way DC left Baltimore behind), then they’ll be clamoring for it.

As it stands now, from the perspective of a HoCo NIMBY, a metro line has zero positive impact on them because very VERY few of them need to commute into Baltimore for any reason, especially now, and have a severe negative potential impact of introducing crime into their cute little towns. This is a stupid concern, IMO, but it will be almost insurmountable. No one in HoCo wants a metro connection to Baltimore. That’s it. Also, anyone from HoCo that does commute from Baltimore is happy to drive and would not consider an alternative (and it’s hard to blame them for this ignorance as no alternative currently exists to compare it to).

Again, the solution is to build within Baltimore and within communities that want it, employ TOD and other yimby/StrongTowns style development to build wealth (which reduces crime and creates jobs/opportunities), and in a decade they will be begging for a metro line to get to where all the jobs are.

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A_Damn_Millenial OP t1_ix08jck wrote

Outside of sporting events, there’s probably few HoCo residents who would ride a yellow line all the way into Baltimore City.

However, I believe there is tremendous opportunity in the stops west of Linthicum. Getting residents rail access to BWI and MARC seem like no brainers, especially if the stops can become TOD zones with increased density.

Having a connection to Baltimore shouldn’t be a deal breaker, but if residents make it a problem, a compromise could be that the HoCo to BWI connection will be its own line that requires a train change to get to Baltimore.

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DfcukinLite t1_ix07an0 wrote

Can’t speak for the totality of Howard county, but, Edward Norton’s grandfather developed Columbia, and then Reston, to be the first mixed income planned community centered around a town center in the US. That’s where the “EQUALITY” stickers come from.

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TheCaptainDamnIt t1_ix0e0ao wrote

You're really underestimating the racism, hated, and the sacrifices those people are willing to make because of it.

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A_Damn_Millenial OP t1_ix0ph2c wrote

I know those people exist, and I know they’re loud and have money, but I think they’re outnumbered.

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Xanny t1_ix03v0o wrote

Which is just fuck em. I think one of the greatest failings in Baltimore transit planning is the persistent need to keep trying to make it a commuter system, that every line needs to have termini in exurbs near or past the beltway. In most proposals the lines are only financially solvent to build in the city core and the 60%+ of the line that goes through the suburbs out to these termini are extraordinarily expensive to build and would have a fraction of the ridership.

The original Red Line proposal is a great example of this. From the MARC interchange past Bayview through the city and up route 40 it all makes great sense. You even get a dedicated right of way tunnel through most of the city to make up for the failings of the existing light rail. But then they propose an expensive as hell tunnel under suburbia at Cooks Lane through the nowhere that is i70 just to get it to the car sprawl malls and government buildings at Security Square. That whole leg of the route is about half its cost but its realistic ridership would be dreadful compared to the rest of the route.

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colive4 t1_ix19taz wrote

While I agree with you on the matter of cost, I can counter with an amazing single data point of one, me. I would LOVE to be able to get downtown from my Baltimore County home easily and without having to drive. A stop in White Marsh isn't too far from me and would make it incredibly easier for me to go to things like O's games, the casino, and restaurants. (20ish years ago I would have said downtown bars too but I've aged out of that demographic).

I hear what you're saying though for sure. I'm just one person fighting against the racists out here.

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Xanny t1_ix1csri wrote

Yea at some point the impetus has to be on the individual to live near transit if they want to use it. Like definitely advocate wherever you are to build transit, but most of the suburbs exist to get away from the city. That is why I advocate for building up transit in Baltimore itself, so that people who want to live car free have that as an option, because its really the only place in the state that can be truly realized.

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Cheomesh t1_ix2qq9g wrote

I get you, but if the city has to foot the bill for these why should it subsidize suburban lifestyles?

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colive4 t1_ix4hruq wrote

Fair point, but two things:

  1. The influx of $$ into Baltimore City from surburbanites with easy access to all the stuff there isn't nothing.
  2. Fund it at the state level, not just the city. Failing that, a joint counties/city project.

Just back of the napkin thinking, I'm not a budgeting guy!

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microActive t1_ix1n6le wrote

If you live in town center you do not need a car. I wouldn't be surprised if 20% of the people who live there work from home lol. Get their groceries delivered and everything

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tjd9109 t1_ix1dkjj wrote

As a Baltimore resident who works in HOCO/MOCO, I would rather see express lanes on I-95 be added than a rail line added to connect Baltimore-Columbia. The masses who sit in traffic on 95 between 198 and 695 interchange would agree

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A_Damn_Millenial OP t1_ix2hbib wrote

More car lanes are not the answer.

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tjd9109 t1_ix3ysho wrote

The problem is Maryland cannot properly operate a functioning rail system. I’ve given up on using light rail link after my last trip from BWI. I waited over 55 minutes for a train to arrive when the schedule online stated for 3 cars to depart in that period. The passengers that day also were another reason. I was approached three different times at the BWI terminal asking for money and then a man in his 40s had a baby who might have been no older than 3 weeks old in a stroller, screaming and crying the entire ride and did nothing about it. I’ll be taking an Uber or taxi to BWI from here on out ✌🏻

Also express toll lanes are being added in the DC region on I-270 and I-495, when DC already has Metro that connects all of the areas where express lanes are being added.

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