I get the turn signals thing completely. Not sure why it's so hard to use.

Poverty and apathy.

Many unsavory behaviors can be linked back to poverty. Why would you give a fuck about anybody else when worrying about yourself is stressful enough?

Plus, everyone else is doing it so why shouldn’t I? Clearly no one gives a shit. This is the apathy part.

I don’t agree with this mentality at all, but this is my opinion on why people behave this way.

I am guessing the people who can’t bother using their turn signals intersect heavily with the people who can’t even bother to throw their trash in a trash can.

WTF does poverty have to do with people not using turn signals!?!?

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This is very low on the list for this city.

Don’t worry bout it

Bingo.

And can't bother to not block the intersection when it's red for them.

People are raised to think they are an island, and no one else counts.

I grew up in a very poor southern state. People there use signals waaaay more than anyone in Baltimore or Maryland. From hoopties to high end cars, it doesn't matter. Marylanders drive like they are alone on Earth.

People use signals here, it's a notable event. Give that mofo a damn plaque.

If you can keep your signal on until your maneuver is completed?! Be still, my heart.

Hm, I am curious about the studies. I grew up in poverty (not in Baltimore) and I think it led to a very "we're all in this together" attitude in my community.

I use my turn signals... but they are broken. Stupid electrical issue that will cost more to fix than the car is worth, and this market is not good for used cars right now.... :(

I think people double park because people can not parallel park. I heard that its not even on the driving exam anymore.

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I'm sure you know this but there are hand signals out the window for this circumstance. Same as bike signals. I mean, probably only need to do it when there's someone who you can see would benefit from it (unlike people that never use their signals who don't seem to differentiate and just never use them).

That was the plan! - DuPont / Moderna / Monsanto et al.

Why not? Sometimes changing the little things reminds people we can make changes and are actually all in it together.

What thing on the list are you working on?

I’ll be putting in the work don’t mind me

I actually did look up what they are recently! I remember learning that 20 some years ago, but had forgotten. So I am trying to do that when needed.

Of course, the problem with that is, does everyone else on the road know them? lol. They can't even parallel park!

Good on ya!

We'd be better off if we just eat the rich imo. Lots of left overs.

What kind of electrical issue is it?

I don't know really. Just going on what the mechanics said. Its not just the turn signals, it effects all of the lights on the front. I keep replacing the head lights and turn signals, but they just all keep burning out.

Not really a car person.

Sounds like you have some shorts between the head lights and the battery.

They don't have their shit together so they can't possibly afford the bandwith to be mindful of the needs of others.

The lack of mindfulness transcends race, creed, and socio-economic status. There's people who are mindful, and there's people who are a fuckin' mess.

Now, let all the chaotic assholes out there tell me their life is totally under control and they just don't give a fuck because they're super tough and independent or something.

I'm just not sure what vehicle I want to get to replace it, even if i found an amazing deal. Seriously, my car has had a loooong happy life.

I'd love something with more space, like a mini van (but do I really want a mini van?). NOT an SUV, i've never liked them.

Yeah. I mean not knowing your situation, it's hard to say. My extended family all seem to drive Subaru wagons for space reasons, but not wanting a van or SUV

I’ll say it and eat the downvotes.

Baltimore is a highly uneducated region. A staggering number of our citizens can’t be bothered to think about their yearly budgets, or how to meal plan, this is because of the inability to see anything more than what’s directly in front of their faces literally and metaphorically. Empathy is a skill that takes practice and cognitive awareness of others, something - lot of smart people are still really bad at. So using your turn signal is a very basic way to drive/communicate/live with empathy, which is just something a lot of people don’t have anymore.

I think we all pretended to care a little bit in 2019, and then all our psyche’s were irreparably fucked during all the shit that happened in Covid/trump

Studies suggest that the less well off you are financially the more you’re likely to focus all of your efforts on not being homeless and feeding your kids.

This starts with apathetic acts such as lack of turn signals, but then trickles into things like property crime and robbery.

Nobody was properly taught how to drive

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I’d be curious what countries/cultures those studies looked at. Poverty in one country can look a lot more anti-social than in another. You can’t blame it entirely on poverty.

And those who don’t return their shopping cart at the supermarket. (unless physically unable!)

We are living on the bleeding edge of a coming post apocalyptic world. Baltimore is so close to the edge of it we can see over the edge. Murders shootings carjackings and armed robbery thru the roof There are literally zombies walking the city, organized crime gangs running the city and you're flipping out over turn signals and double parking... You might need to check your privilege and see if you are part of the problem or solution

Nope, but it's hard to actually find the mental and emotional space and empathy to take the time and effort to act on those considerations

How exactly are people in the black butterfly supposed to get educated in sub-standard schools with under-supported and stressed the fuck out teachers, all while trying to teach kids who get shown every single day that life is stacked the fuck against them.

What yearly budget? There aren't a lot of worthwhile jobs.

What meal planning? There aren't really any grocery stores.

They can see beyond what's in front of their face, but literally surviving what is front of their face takes precedent over everything else.

They don't care about themselves and others because that requires having a potential future. And these kids grow up being shown that they have no future without putting in an endless Sisyphean level of effort.

And then we wonder why these kids grow up cynical as fuck and join gangs and shit.

And then no one invests in the butterfly because it's "full of crime".

And then we get more cynical kids...

And so on, forever.

It's not just Dundalk. Living in Baltimore taught me as long as your flashers are on you can park anywhere. My theory around turn signals is that it is a response to people not letting you merge etc if you use it.

Out of curiosity, urban, suburban, or rural?

And pee on the public toilet seats.

Csx has a project where they pay their employees to go to high schools one day a month and promote their job shadow program to seniors. Guaranteed $30/hr job when they graduate. Some kids get into it but never take the job.

Every city sponsored construction project will hire know nothing laborers if they live in the city. Usually there's a giant banner at the gate. That pays $18/hr and you will learn a trade by the end of the project. Usually only one or two guys will show up.

Opportunity is there for the taking.

So, ya know how lead paint will fuck up your brain?

And like how having terrible nutrition will screw up your cognitive development?

And did you ever stop to think how poor neighborhoods have bad schools?

And seriously now, you really could have spent two seconds thinking about this.

Because from what I have seen, their other hand is too busy playing on their phone

Okay, great, a scant few physical labor opportunities are there. Not everyone is cut out for physical labor / trades. Not everyone wants to or can be an electrician, steam fitter, welder, carpenter, whatever. Can it be a decent career? Sure. Is it for everyone? Fuck no.

That's before even getting in to the atrocious work/life balance culture that the trades foster, especially outside of unions. You want to tell me that 40 and beyond hours a week of manual labor with limited or no vacation time, shitty healthcare, a culture of companies getting mad if you take time off for being sick, nevermind having to work around a shit load of insanely racist dipshits is particularly appealing to an 18/19yo black kid from the butterfly?

And that's not even getting in to transportation costs and/or the time investment if they have to use our shitty public transit of getting to these jobs.

White people in the L have white collar jobs available to them that pay better, have better work/life balance, better Healthcare, and so on an so forth.

And either way, it doesn't change my point. The kids are still growing up with deeply ingrained cultural cynicism towards life, towards their still ongoing oppression. Those few jobs might lessen the slope of Sisyphus' Hill, but it definitely doesn't remove their struggle.

The best is when someone is double parking next to my parked car and I'm trying to leave to work.

Lol people don’t use turn signals anywhere in this country.

This is another pet peeve. In the middle of rush hour, every time I see a car with 5 car lengths in front of them it’s always the phone.

Probably goes back to poor drivers Ed. My parents were really focused on making sure I was a good driver and they sent me to a drivers Ed course that was actually helpful, rather than just a "vehicle" to get my license. I imagine this isn't the case for everyone. I don't even think about using my turn signal. it's a habit. it's going to prevent me from getting into an accident as I'm telling those people behind me I'm switching lanes instead of just swrving out of nowhere.

You must think really highly of blue collar workers calling them racist dipshits

I'm a fucking union electrician, dipshit. I see the shit every fucking day.

You must've never worked a blue collar job if you think my comment is in some way inaccurate.

The amount of white dudes wearing some flavor of either obvious dog whistle bullshit all the way through to rebel flag hardhats plastered with Trump bullshit is legion.

Why the fuck would a bunch of black kids, who already have to deal with societies constant daily racism, want to go to a job site to work around people who make it a fucking point to wear their very very special snowflake fashy bullshit?

That's not even getting into the absurd amount of racist bullshit that gets scrawled inside every fucking portapot on a construction site.

Okay. Start with voting out the current sess poll of "representatives" that run this city.

You know it, I know it, We all know it. That the city government needs a huge reset button.

What comes next, I'm not sure...

I don't know if there is any real studies on the matter. If you find something, please share.

But check out the "broken window" theory.

Someone hung a BLACK BABY DOLL by a noose on my jobsite in 2021. It was in sparrows point md.

Hard to focus on anything that's not immediately in front of you when you're trying to survive crushing poverty. No one is waking up going "boy, it's great to be an asshole with no money today." Some people are assholes, of course, but you're painting with a very broad brush.

Carbrain is a real thing

Broken window theory is deeply flawed and not accepted by contemporary academics. It confuses the symptoms of poverty for the cause.

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Sounds like the real culprit would then be 1) lack of accountability and persecution of slum lords for being slum lords, 2) lack of appropriate urban planning and resourcing neighborhoods and schools to have proper food, 3) lack of investment in public school students and teachers. Blaming poverty low-key just blames the poor people, not the greater structure that keeps poverty as a permanent fixture.

Again…WTF does poverty have to do with turn signals…there are a bunch of pompous assholes driving cars who think they own the road because they drive luxury cars weaving in and out of traffic for the fuck of it..point me to these ridiculous studies or is this your implicit bias/stereotype based on demographics? There are a lot of inconsiderate idiots (poor, working class and rich) making bad or absent minded decisions driving cars.

I grew up rural poor (like no indoor plumbing and no heating in the winter poor). My dad grew up the same. My mom grew up poor in the Caribbean and then in the projects of Newark. Of course there were assholes around but they weren't assholes because they were broke.

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The amount of BMW's and Lexus's I've seen not use turn signals really throws the poverty excuse out the window.

The lack of turn signals is not because we are in an apocalypse and the people in Baltimore aren't zombies. This is psychotic dribble coated thinly in racism. Go outside, you need it.

The whole city is a double parking hellscape. There’s constantly people double parked like 20 feet from actual street parking. It’s probably my biggest peeve about driving in baltimore

I haven't seen a traffic enforcement moment in like, 8 years.

That is probably more in line with the concept of apathy. But there are lots of people out there spending money on luxury cars that they also just simply cannot afford. You can also get a nice deal on a luxury brand car that has been totaled in an accident.

> What meal planning? There aren't really any grocery stores.

While grocery store access is a very important problem in the city, we are in a thread talking about drivers. Access to a car greatly increases access to grocery stores.

That was kind of my assumption from your comment. I also grew up rural poor, and felt that community bond. But also being a poor adult in the city I can tell you it is significantly different.

And I responded to a comment talking about education, budgets, and meal planning.

Why are you responding to me and not the person I responded to?

Blaming poverty is an absolutely shit take.

Big yikes to the baltimore subreddit that this is getting downvoted. And I await my downvotes.

I grew up in Virginia. I made a comment to a classmate in a graduate level class that drivers in Maryland are aggressive and I often don’t see them use turn signals. She responded “I didn’t realize you had to use them.” It explains a lot. lollll

Cool.

Because you’re really angry for some reason. There are problems in every industry, but very few industries will pay pretty well even just to learn, and then even better after some experience. And within a 10 year streak you can go from minimum wage to six figures. Nobody’s hiring software engineers who can’t engineer, trades are all still a viable path for everyone who didn’t get other options. Learn a trade. Build a business, own a share of a successful business once you want to stop swinging a hammer or whatever. More of the boats in the white Marlin open are owned by successful blue collar business owners than any other market and you want to sit here and cry about all the negatives instead of seeing the positives.

Oh noes, I'm not sugar coating the bullshit for yall. So sad. Sorry I didn't feel like being diplomatic towards your fucking high horse bullshit.

Regardless, apparently none of you motherfuckers can read well. And apparently you subscribe to the capitalist bullshit, "just try harder" nonsense that permeates our society.

Fuck your, "just go into the trades, just start a business, it's so easy." bullshit. I don't have the energy to bother detailing a response that you won't read or retain about why that stupid shit is so fucking tiring to here from idiot white middle class people who are completely, and willfully, oblivious to the struggles that non middle class people face.

Whatever your problem is my guy, screaming about it incoherently into the void won’t ever help prove your point more, digitally, or gain more respect IRL. Have yourself a nice lil Saturday!

Man, your sense of self is completely fucking out of whack if you think any of my comments were "screaming."

Irked, sure, screaming, lol no. Get over yourself.

The lack of turn signals had me beeping at people. I will quickly stop, because I don’t want to get shot in this city. Wish police would issue tickets.

Great.

So whats the current theory, if you can?

I can't, sorry, I've been out of school about a decade. I couldn't succinctly explain it. It shouldn't be too hard to Google if you want to follow up on it. I can tell you for sure it was already in anthropology's rear view mirror over 15 years ago.