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eleanor48 t1_j22xdpy wrote

No. That used to be a common theory, especially when you think of animals like elephants grieving and having funerals. But crows can hold grudges and in studies rats have released their friends from small cages rather than do meth or coke or whichever drug was on offer. Evidence of complex emotion is tricky to quantify but intelligence is a bit easier. Parrots and corvids are incredibly intelligent and have very small brains, I believe the current leading theory links intelligence with number of synapses rather than neurons. (Connections rather than brain cells)

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Cultist_O t1_j238i9p wrote

In addition to the other excellent coment, I'd like to point out that "emotions", along with other subjective experiences, even including consciousness itself, are extremely difficult to measure.

We can really only measure an organism's responses to stimuli (including, increasingly, physiological/neural responses). We can't really say for sure "this dog is experiencing loneliness because she was left home for two days", so much as we can say "this dog is whining, laying about, and staring off into space more and more the longer she's left alone". We can't even "prove" other humans experience consciousness the same way we do, as we don't actually kniw what causes it, but they act similarly, so the simplest explanation is that they do.

It's not hard to imagine an organism that experiences the same emotions as us, but that reacts to those feelings completely differently. In that case, how would we know what they're feeling? Similarly, how do we know trees don't have complex internal lives, but because they can't move, we've no idea?

Ultimately, we assume more complex nervous systems mean more complex consciousness and emotions, but the details aren't well established.

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undiscovered_tumor t1_j23k89m wrote

Replying to eleanor48 (#1,139,491)

So we think emotion and intelligence are linked and that neither are necessarily controlled by brain size, but surely it helps, right?do we think generally bigger animals are smarter than smaller animals? Are ants maybe geniuses?

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Uncynical_Diogenes t1_j23uccr wrote

Replying to undiscovered_tumor (#1,142,898)

Neurons are tiny. The capacity for intelligence seems to be linked much more with how they are connected than how large the resulting structure is.

We would only expect to see intelligence evolve in an organism to the degree that it improves their fitness. Intelligence is not a universally good trait; it is expensive to maintain.

Koalas are drop dead stupid because they’ve gotten themselves stuck in a valley on the fitness surface, not benefitting from intelligence. Ants don’t need to be individual geniuses, because the colony’s intelligence is an emergent property arising from many much less complicated little nodes.

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mrxexon t1_j24027p wrote

No. A brain's processing power isn't connected to brain size. When you have big brains, it usually represents storage space for memories.

A crow is a good example. Highly intelligent with an IQ equal to a human 7 year old. Dogs and cats have bigger brains but the IQ of a human 3 year old.

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Nervous_Breakfast_73 t1_j24ypgq wrote

Replying to mrxexon (#1,145,899)

Brains of birds are also wired super differently. When it comes down to it's about the number of neurons and connections that make you smart. For very small animals, size can be a limiting factor for getting super smart, but the size of cells is also different between small and big animals. So, bigger brain doesn't necessarily mean more cells and computing power

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Telltwotreesthree t1_j256lfb wrote

Replying to Cultist_O (#1,141,306)

Complex emotion is impossible without a high level of intelligence because the "complex" part is dependent on self awareness or even more abstract thinking (object permanence, cause effect, etc)

So splitting hairs about complex emotion is redundant. Any emotional complexity is dependent to a high degree on intelligence, bringing the discussion back to neuroconnectivity

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628cmoed t1_j27fv95 wrote

Replying to eleanor48 (#1,139,491)

So a dust mite or a tardigrade is just as capable of feeling complex emotion as a crow? At some point the number of brain cells gets too few to have a lot of connections.

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atomfullerene t1_j29sdce wrote

Replying to mrxexon (#1,145,899)

>A brain's processing power isn't connected to brain size.

I mean there's some connection. A roundworm with 302 neurons can't process as much as a fly, which can't process as much as a mouse, which can't process as much as a human.

But it's not at all a 1:1 variation. Especially since neuron density can vary enormously in brains of different species.

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