Submitted by vaterp t3_z10idk in askscience
Grundyloop t1_ix8m0wg wrote
The sky has a similar set of coordinates as the Earth - in fact, the coordinates have the same names: latitude and longitudes. You’re correct in that the sky appears to move above us as the Earth rotates, but we astronomers have solved this by specifying a point on the sky that we define as always having coordinates (0,0). So, from the point of view of someone on Earth, the (0,0) point moves as the sky apparently moves above us.
The choice of where we’ve decided (0,0) to be is somewhat arbitrary, but if you’re curious, it’s defined as the position of the Sun on the sky at the vernal equinox (around March 21st).
vaterp OP t1_ix8nd8x wrote
thanks, very clear explanation... but followup
The object we are studying might not move in the same repeatable orbitable pattern around our (0,0)... like say a comet or asteroid that is moving in a straight line out of any given orbit. So regardless of our "0,0" point - that will constantly be moving ... so a day or a week or a month later - how would that specific comet be addressed?
Thanks!
Grundyloop t1_ix8p6m4 wrote
We use something called ephimerides, which describe how much an object moves in longitude and latitude (Right Ascension and Declination) per day etc. In other words, they describe the trajectory of a moving celestial object. The vast majority of celestial objects don’t move appreciably on the sky from one year to the next, the exceptions being solar system objects (planets, comets, asteroids) and a handful of nearby stars.
ketarax t1_ixc13uk wrote
>The object we are studying might not move in the same repeatable orbitable pattern around our (0,0)... like say a comet or asteroid that is moving in a straight line out of any given orbit.
Comet and asteroid orbits are just the usual conic sections, most often ellipses. Straight lines would require propulsion; actually, a bona fide "space drive". Once the orbital parameters have been found out, the orbit can be extrapolated for tens, even hundreds of years with some accuracy, and assuming there are no close encounters with massive objects.
VT_Squire t1_ix9hiv9 wrote
>The choice of where we’ve decided (0,0) to be is somewhat arbitrary, but if you’re curious, it’s defined as the position of the Sun on the sky at the vernal equinox (around March 21st).
Makes sense for it to be at the equinox... do you know, historically speaking, why this was settled upon? I mean... while it's "good enough" for long stretches of time, even this changes subtly from year to year. Is there further guidance on an annual adjustment?
information-producer t1_ix9irqz wrote
Yes, a full coordinate system specifies not only the location, but also the time of the equinox. This way, the location at any other time can be calculated. You can read about the precession of the equinoxes to learn more about this.
Grundyloop t1_ix9yq8h wrote
The zero latitude line (usually known as zero declination) is an imaginary line across the sky that is directly above the Earth’s equator; it’s known as the celestial equator. Since that defines the zero declination (in the same way the Earth’s equator defines zero latitude), then the next thing astronomers needed to do was to choose a point along that line to define (0,0). Rather than choose an arbitrary star, which may later prove to not lie on the celestial equator with more precise measurement, they instead chose the point where the Sun’s apparent path across the sky (known as the ecliptic) crossed the celestial equator. Two non-parallel lines must cross at a point, so this made it a good choice. I believe the choice of adopting the crossing point associated with vernal equinox was arbitrary - they could have equally likely chosen the autumnal equinox.
You are correct that the exact location of where the celestial equator and ecliptic cross will change slowly over time, so now astronomers have defined precisely where (0,0) lies relative to reference celestial objects that do not move over millenia. This point is, however, almost exactly at the traditional location defined by the celestial equator and the ecliptic.
Blakut t1_ixc0zv6 wrote
The plane in which the Sun moves in the sky and the plane of Earth's equator intersect on a line that points on one end at the zero-zero point.
Ignorhymus t1_ix9l66x wrote
Do we need to know the time (noon, say)? Or the location (Greenwich? Equator?)? Or are they functions of each other?
nivlark t1_ix9ogvi wrote
The celestial coordinates are the same for everyone, by definition. But an individual observer must account for when and where on the Earth they are looking from to know where that point will be on the sky.
eatabean t1_ixc0hi3 wrote
Astronomers use sidereal time, which represents one revolution of the earth, roughly 23 h 56 min. No, a day is not 24 hours long. So we use coordinated AND siderial time.
IhaveaBibledegree t1_ix9zq8u wrote
Why not the North Star? Isn’t it a fixed position to our orbital axis?
Grundyloop t1_ixa0xae wrote
The North Star isn’t on the celestial equator, so it doesn’t have a zero declination. It’s also not exactly aligned with the poles (it’s just under 1 degree off, which is a large offset for precision astronomy).
IhaveaBibledegree t1_ixa1dst wrote
Oh cool, thanks for the answer!
Sequels_Shmequals t1_ixai9p1 wrote
Also, FYI the North Star isn't truly fixed either as our rotation axis is processing. The Earth is more accurately like a spinning top. It's a slow change, but in a few 1000 years there won't be a North Star. Or at least it might be a different Star, not Polaris
[deleted] t1_ixalvll wrote
[removed]
lurker1957 t1_ixanm0l wrote
Isn’t it true that Polaris is a really lucky accident as there aren’t any other bright stars along the circle that the precession traces?
Edit: spooling
Sequels_Shmequals t1_ixaqkya wrote
It is very lucky, but I don't think it's the only bright star. Vega is also quite bright and was once the North Star. But there definitely aren't many bright ones along the circle.
derioderio t1_ixaorek wrote
Why don't they just use Earth's rotation axis, or Polaris? Is that because Earth's axis wobbles slightly, and the star positions slowly change over 1000s of years?
Blakut t1_ixc15bm wrote
they do. Earth's north pole projected onto the sky is the North Celestial Pole, and Earth's equator is projected onto the sky to give the Celestial Equator. Where the Sun's path in the sky intersects the Celestial Equator in spring defines the zero point.
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