Viewing a single comment thread. View all comments

Envenger t1_ivo30zr wrote

I am more interested to know how we found out that large mammals can develop antibodies for venom.

1

newappeal t1_ivop1tf wrote

It uses the same adaptive immunity that mammals (us included) use to develop antibodies for diseases. A key bit of information that seems to be missing from all the answers here is that most venoms are proteins, which is what mammalian immune systems usually produce antibodies against. (Not that we can only develop antibodies against proteins in particular - the key metric is the size of the molecule. Larger molecules have - by virtue of being large and structurally diverse - more unique structures than smaller ones, so chemical interactions between large molecules can be more specific and therefore stronger than those between small molecules.)

So armed with the knowledge that all or most mammals have similar immune systems that can develop antibodies against virtually any protein, and that venoms are proteins, it stands to reason that you can make antibodies to venom in most mammals. We use mammals like goats, rabbits, sheep, and horses to make other antibodies for scientific research, too.

Edit: A bit of a primer on poisons might be helpful here. As said above, we can develop antibodies against large poisonous biomolecules, whether they are enzymes that directly interfere with our biochemistry (making us sick), or they are receptors on viral particles that act during one step of a longer process that in the end interferes with our biochemistry (and thus make us sick). But some poisonous molecules are small, so we cannot develop antibodies against them. Arsenic (as arsenate), cyanide, heavy metals (lead, cadmium, radioactive iodine), and mustard gas are examples of such poisons. They act by either displacing small biomolecules (arsenate replaces phosphate; heavy metals replace other metal cofactors like iron, copper, and cobalt), competing for an enzyme's binding site (cyanide outcompetes oxygen), or reacting irreversibly with a biomolecule (mustard gas reacts with DNA). Because they are small, these poisons look a lot like other chemical species that occur frequently in biology (which is precisely why things like arsenic and lead are toxic), so antibodies against them would cause autoimmunity. Venom enzymes, being large, have unique structures that occur nowhere else in the target organism's own biology, and so they can be uniquely identified and bound by antibodies.

2

Nuvenor t1_ivo62rv wrote

trial and error. Guess how we figured out chocolate kills dogs. Or which mushrooms are edible.

1

Brandon432 t1_ivosgiy wrote

Debunking a common myth, it takes an awful lot of chocolate to kill a dog. My retrievers on several occasions crushed multiple king size Hershey bars, with no ill effect, other than a really messy yard for a couple days. Their bodies are as good as ours at expelling disagreeable materials.

3

googlecansuckithard t1_ivrxrih wrote

Not necessarily: it depends upon the breed. A relatively small chunk of dark chocolate (a square of a hersheys bar) will cause siezures in small breeds, and I can unfortunately testify to first hand experience to this. Chiuauas are particularly vulnerable.

1