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Upset-Ad4844 t1_ityqz3z wrote

Reply to comment by whatissevenbysix in How can the chicks breathe in their shell? by You_Smiled

Great answer, but one quick correction. They are not breathing (using lungs) until they hatch, however they are respiring. I have to confess my ignorance on the exact mechanism, but the membranes seem to allow for the O2-CO2 gas exchange to the blood.

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emmyarty t1_ityy5bk wrote

Another quick correction: respiration is not the biological term for gas exchange, but rather the process by which usable energy is released and made available to cells. That's why anaerobic respiration is still a form of respiration.

Breathing is still the most appropriate way to describe lungless gas exchange, whether it's fish breathing through their gills or lungless salamanders breathing cutaneously.

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JennaSais t1_itziw9q wrote

Great corrections, but one more quick correction (because I want to play too!) They don't wait until they hatch to start breathing, they start breathing when they pip. That is to say, inside the shell, they break the air sac and begin to breathe, and then they make their first hole in the shell. At this stage you can often hear them making their first peeping sounds, even before they've "zipped" (which is when they start pecking a line open around the shell, and the stage at which you can typically catch your first glimpse of the emerging chick.)

I have some quail eggs I'll be setting soon, I'll try to remember to film!

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jcgam t1_itzzhni wrote

It's amazing such complex behaviour is already programmed in, and they don't have to learn it.

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sametrical t1_iu0056x wrote

Was disappointed that you don't also have another quick correction, but I do agree with you that it is amazing

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JennaSais t1_iu05odf wrote

Right? Another fun tidbit is that the earliest chicks' peeping sounds stimulate the latecomers to work to get out as well, so you can see some very early social behaviors with them as well.

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paul_wi11iams t1_iu0m3yx wrote

> you can see some very early social behaviors.

Here's a more cynical take on this:

As a chick, I'd do the same, hatching just after the first. So the first-hatched would keep any predator busy while I get out of my shell and improve my own chances of survival.

It compares to zebras running close-packed, each improving its individual chances because the lion will catch only one.

Edit: Thinking further, I concede that there could be a big overlap between social behavior and selfish gene survival. For example, the first to hatch could be helping out its siblings by offering itself up to a predator.

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LandlordakaThe_Super t1_iu2a1u2 wrote

Although most predators will simply eat an egg because it does not attempt to run away.

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jqbr t1_iu41q3y wrote

Spider behavior is considerably more complex than what's being described here.

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ecksate t1_iu0eun0 wrote

Spectacular corrections, but one small tidbit that's barely related but does break some reasonable assumptions: human babies, at some point in development, do some amount of breathing, and what they breath in and out is amniotic fluid (just for practice, not for gas exchange.)

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Omnizoom t1_iu0s1bx wrote

One extra tidbit to add , our lungs are very capable of exchanging oxygen and co2 with a liquid so even amniotic fluid would be able to do a chemical exchange

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DJBscout t1_iu22iog wrote

So.....why can't I breathe water then? I wanna play fish, damnit.

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Omnizoom t1_iu2n0jh wrote

Because water is a crappy source of oxygen compared to air , but if you were to breathe a oxygen rich fluid that can also absorb co2 then your body will be able to use it

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who-dee-knee1 t1_iu0sxnm wrote

Amazing correction, but I have one more correction…..

Jk, I just wanted to feel included.

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Da_Real_OfficialFrog t1_iu848ga wrote

One more correction actually! I don’t have a correction I just wanted to feel included

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GeriatricZergling t1_itz1mza wrote

Incorrect. The term "respiration" is used for both; they're simply different enough that nobody gets confused when talking about cells vs multicellular animals exchanging gasses.

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emmyarty t1_itz4iev wrote

They're both used, yes, but one is a colloquialism. A technical correction should be technically precise.

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[deleted] t1_itzakhv wrote

[removed]

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Upset-Ad4844 t1_iu005je wrote

I stand corrected, emmy. Thank you for the correction.

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RoyalAlbatross t1_itzmlbr wrote

Well “gas exchange” is a pretty straightforward phrase to use here, as you just did.

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BIG_IDEA t1_iu0etkj wrote

The correct term is “diffusion.” It’s so strange that the term didn’t come up anywhere in the thread lol.

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lazy_smurf t1_iu0jw1p wrote

Diffusion and respiration are both correct but from different perspectives. Diffusion is focused on the molecular movement (chemical/physical perspective) and respiration is focused on the organism's processes (biological perspective).

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Ramiel01 t1_iu0a1ir wrote

So the correct term would be perfusion?

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Josette22 t1_iu1p6s0 wrote

This must be what goes on with a human fetus. We don't breathe with our lungs until we're born.

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cranfeckintastic t1_iu1ymg4 wrote

The blood-vessels that form inside the shell would be what absorb the oxygen and transfer it to the chick. It's the same sort of thing with reptile eggs, save they tend to have a slightly larger air pocket and, unlike bird eggs, can't be moved from the position they were laid in as it runs a high risk of smothering the air pocket and suffocating the embryo.

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