Are you goin to ruin everyone’s commute

No, thank you for the concern

Why Kelly Square and not the common?

There is one tomorrow 5:30-6:30 at city hall, a candlelight vigil's happening. Who's organizing the Kelly Square one?

Info on the city hall one: https://facebook.com/groups/worcpolitalk/permalink/2549073465233043/

Because it's a busy area and I remember some BLM protests happening there back in 2020

I'm hosting it and will likely take my car and encourage other people to go to City Hall after to merge with the vigil

I am planning a 3rd protest, same time as the other 2 but I am going to host it in Elm Park, near the swings.

What time???

I’m just kiddin, dualing protests in a city that doesn’t care tryna get justice when all 5 of the cops have been fired and charged…. Idk seems silly 🙃

Not to be rude, but what's the point? While the act was horrible, that police department doesn't have any jurisdiction here, nor do we have any influence over that police department, and the cops have all already been charged with murder. What could the demonstration actually do?

EDIT: Nice. Downvote without actually answering the question.

There already HAS been justice. Go find a hobby.

Because police violence is out of control and getting worse instead of better. Police and politicians need to know that we're watching and we care about what they're doing. The militarization of police needs to stop. Also, who do you think is paying for all of these jury awards? You and me baby.

Sorry, what?

Because it's a chronic situation and needs to change.

What does justice look like, in your opinion?

Good please be respectful in honor of this young man

You think this is good after your relapse

people are protesting bc this is a systemic issue. also did you not hear about the kid that was just murdered by police protesting cop city? police have militarized everywhere but sure, it’s silly.

I downvotes and was gonna respond but the dinner party episode of Frazier just came on. I don’t like what you said but HAHA Marty is the man. Love when he sticks it to Niles. I love this show.

that kid was 26 and didn’t he shoot first?

Go find a hobby

Not OP and not an expert but I think some things people advocate for is the end of qualified immunity, requiring police to carry personal liability insurance, increased training, ending programs that give local police military weapons and vehicles (that cost way too much to upkeep and are entirely unnecessary for local law enforcement), regular de-escalation trainings, better whistleblower protection for cops that see their coworkers abusing power. These are just a few things that can help prevent cases like this which should never happen ever.

nope

That’s fairly generalized police reform rhetoric, very little of that applies to the case that’s causing the protests. QI has nothing to do with this case; it doesn’t apply to criminal charges and all 5 cops were charged. The police department where they were charged experienced budget cuts which affected budget for training, and experienced lowered hiring standards which led to those cops being hired in the first place. Everything following the assault worked pretty smoothly as far as justice is concerned. Even his family said that this should be the blueprint for all police involved criminal homicides.

Okay, but what is the demonstration going to do? You say "police need to know," but it is common knowledge that people are unhappy with the police.

But what does a group of people holding signs and, likely, chanting do?

There are conflicting reports.

The cops are being tried for second degree murder, just like anyone else who commits a murder. The outcome on that is in the jury's hands. The unit those cops were part of has been disbanded. What are you actually hoping for?

[removed]

Well I took a stab at it, like I said. Not OP, not an expert, just a dude living where cops kill lots of people

Yeah, I get you, in a pessimistic state I'd say it will get us nothing. If instead I choose optimism and hope, then I have to say that demonstrations have caused change to happen. The older I get the more I realize that neutrality, or doing nothing or not having an opinion, is no longer an option.

But...isn't just going to a demonstration kind of neutral, if it doesn't accomplish anything?

Better to work to get good candidates elected or something along those lines. A bill enacted in the city/state/country, etc.

It's alcohol, and yeah I can control myself

Wouldn't be drinking at a protest or before I go to work anyway

Not till conviction

Conviction

And cops don't always get convicted when they commit murder

Absolutely I have hosted two protests for him already and both have been without issue

I'm answering your question I've been busy most of the day, point is, protest till conviction

It's peaceful and raises awareness

Good question and theres one answer, conviction

That’s what the trial is for. Something that protest won’t speed up or change the outcome of.

It's never just about the protest. Protests are usually part of a larger effort. The efficacy of protests varies. They can yield immediate results, they can take years to build momentum, they can be quashed or quickly forgotten. but at the very least they let a community know that some of it's members care about something. It connects people and fosters further work on the issue. If anyone else in the community is concerned about this thing but isolated, now they know they have a community and path to doing work on the issue. It's a single part of many types of effort and activism that can bring eventual change.

To add to my reply deeper in this thread; this is part of a national problem and indeed a problem here too.

I'd agree with your last point if it weren't for the fact that police are trained to be militant in the first place. 'Better training' could very well have meant 'being sure to not get caught'. The idea that police training would have been a good solution here is a bad premise from the outset. The fact that David Grossman still gives talks and is popular speaks volumes to the issue. The police are a brutal military force and, the vast majority of their jobs need to be replaced with social workers who understand mental health and harm reduction issues.

I thoroughly hate the implication here. It amounts to "Don't disrupt peoples' lives in honor of this young man." He died after a vicious brutal beating. A little traffic disruption for an evening is nothing in comparison to that.

In the long term? Drastically reducing the responsibilities of police officers, abolishing the police unions, making them wear body cams where the footage is publicly available with a presumption of guilt if they are not being used properly, an end to qualified immunity, screening of racial bias, and demilitarization of the police.

In the short term? Making it so that every time the police hurt someone, everyone feels the shock and disruptions from it. This has been going on since the inception of the police and it's time for it to stop, and that means being more vocal and louder each time it happens.

Why don’t we ever hear about any local issues being protested? He was killed in Tennessee ffs. Meanwhile have you seen the rise in homelessness all over the city? The drug overdoses? The local violence? But ok- let’s protest something that happened thousands of miles away and has no direct impact on Worcester or even MA.

You should consider joining the police force and showing them what a model officer looks like.

There's a video, it can be seen rather definitively.

That's a ridiculous response.

The problem is systemic,it needs to be resolved by entirely overhauling the systems in place.

It's solidarity. But also it's purposely being treated as a national issue.

Anyway, seriously, you can plan a protest for these other things if you'd like. And there are people working on improving these problems in Worcester, if you're interested in knowing what is being done or if you'd like to work with them.

...and the demonstration makes that more likely how...?

Because the problem is systemic therefore the jury pool's views will likely be skewed to a certain extent.

Why are you triggered by the protesters?

you think you are setting a good precedent for your kids?

^see ^i ^can ^go ^through ^post ^history ^as ^a ^”gotcha” ^moment ^too

All we really know is that it apparently doesn't involve criminal trials.

Then you are tad early in your protest.

I'm thinking it has more to do with attention-seeking.

So... charging the cops and taking them to trial is a bad start?

Have fun storming the castle!

How not? All 5 former officers were arrested and charged.

False premise. No one is saying charging the cops is a bad start. No one is suggesting that at all. What people are saying is that the problem is *institutional*, and this incident is merely a symptom of a larger problem.

I mean, if people all over the country didn't come out and protest after George Floyd's murder, do you really think the officers involved in Tyre's murder would already be fired and arrested? Arrested even before the video came out?

The department's behavior was an acknowledgement that they were under public scrutiny, and protests should continue to remind governments that they are still under public scrutiny.

Justice, to me, means all five officers charged and and given a criminal trial.....

I was answering your question about what the OP thought justice looked like.

Then your form of justice has been served. I think that’s a very reasonable ask, all things considered.

Agreed that it's a systemic problem. The question we're responding to is "
what's the point of a protest when the right things are happening.

It's not fast enough? We should skip the trial and just hang them?

The problem with protests is that there are so many of them that they have become effectively meaningless.

You know I'm not the OP, right?

2020 happened. People's attitudes were changed by that, much more than some demonstration in Worcester, MA. And it's not like police weren't convicted of murder before that, or even before we had smartphones to record evidence.

>I mean, if people all over the country didn't come out and protest after George Floyd's murder, do you really think the officers involved in Tyre's murder would already be fired and arrested? Arrested even before the video came out?

Maybe?

You see, young men who are into femdom are why this world is falling apart. Go be productive friend, gees

I don’t post dick picks on Reddit like a sicko like the OP

I probably will be, one of the uncle's of someone who was murdered by police did just that

What is sick about that, they are posted in the appropriate subs for them

Protests sparked the Civil Rights Act.

Protests ended the misadventure in Vietnam.

Protests resulted in anti-discrimination laws.

Legit results.

Doesn't seem meaningless to me.

And following the policy has changed nothing, which means wider change is needed.

...but a demonstration isn't going to change policy in a different state.

And policies are far better now than they were when most of those convictions happened.

Okay, but a protest doesn't really garner any more attention than a post on Facebook or something. What's the overall strategy?

>A little traffic disruption for an evening

...is going to turn commuters against your cause. How does that help ensure justice?

And I'm sure there's hard data that shows your assertion is valid, and that it's not just a general feeling you have that it's true?

Incidentally, as a general truth, major changes in institutional policy regarding race (or bigotry issues in general) have only come with disruption. The civil rights era of MLK was not just a bunch of people protesting quietly on a sidewalk, the abolition of slavery came with a war. So the idea that you seem to be presenting is based on some incorrect pretenses regarding being nondisruptive.

But in any case, my point wasn't "We should be actively seeking to disrupt traffic", but "Disruption to a commute due to a protest of yet another homicidal attack from police is absolutely acceptable, and trying to frame things as 'Don't do anything disruptive as a show of honor to this young man' is disgusting and self serving."

>...but a demonstration isn't going to change policy in a different state.

Civil rights marches happened in every state. Eventually the blanket of pressure changed things in the deep south.

>And policies are far better now

But demonstrably not where they need to be.

[removed]

This is not a training issue its a personnel issue. They should never have been hired.

It is a chronic situation in Democratic run city's.

It doesn't, almost everyone there was honking

Exactly

what is?

AG is a political office...and there is where public pressure makes an impact.

You said you weren't disrupting traffic...

What do you want Joe Early to do about things that happened in other parts of the country?

I think the commuters survived.

I notice you had to reach back 50 years for examples.

I used the most prominent examples, but if you want more recent examples that were brought about by public pressure, you can cite job discrimination on the basis of orientation, which has been banned nationwide since 2020, or the repeal of Don't Ask, Don't Tell (2012). But also, your response, citing the time frame, is a logical fallacy as it doesn't speak to the efficacy of public sentiment and public pressure.

How about Occupy Wall Street, Black Lives Matter... oh, nevermind.

We each pick our beliefs.

Well, the former definitely didn't take hold. The latter... it remains to be seen if any real change results.

It doesn't disrupt traffic, the people honk in support and continue about their ride

It's Kelly Square the same people have been driving here for the last 10 years and if they were driving here 10 years ago they can definitely survive the modern Kelly square with the protest going on some people just don't get it I guess though we did have one guy who shook his head at us at the protest I thought that was kind of strange but he probably was some kind of cop

I know. My point is that people would not be supportive if you did disrupt traffic.

Okay and we're not so what's the problem

This thread was about disrupting traffic.