Submitted by [deleted] t3_y1gr84 in WorcesterMA
-Horatio_Alger_Jr- t1_irxsnng wrote
Reply to comment by Kirbyoto in What's your opinion on renaming Plantation Street because it's racist? by [deleted]
I guess we need to rename the city also. Worcester has ties to wars with natives.
I did not see much information about slavery on Quinsigamond Plantation in your link. Much more like a passing comment.
>By the way - did anyone in this thread defending the name "Plantation St" know literally anything about Quinsigamond Plantation before today?
I like to learn about the history of my surroundings, so yes, I did.
>I don't know if it had African slaves
Who said anything about where the slaves originated from? I asked about slaves. Does it matter where the slaves came from? Are certain slaves more oppressed in history than others?
Why is UMass not addressing today's slaves. The slaves that make the stainless steel for their medical instruments, the solar panels for their green initiative. Does UMass only get their fuel for their generators and life flight from areas that do not oppress women?
Pushing to change the name of a street because of the word plantation is about as shallow as you can get.
chadwickipedia t1_irxzwdu wrote
Why stop at the city name, rename Massachusetts
Cheap_Coffee t1_iry224n wrote
Why?
Rhode Island changed their name, btw:
[deleted] OP t1_iryegh7 wrote
Yeah, they chopped off a part of the name that wasn't actually written on people's licenses, etc. Hardly anyone even knew that was part of the state's name.
Kirbyoto t1_iryfdzo wrote
>I did not see much information about slavery on Quinsigamond Plantation in your link. Much more like a passing comment.
Yes it's almost like Quinsigamond Plantation isn't tremendously important to history and the people furiously defending its namesake are just looking for things to be upset about. Again, did you know a single thing about it before today?
>I like to learn about the history of my surroundings, so yes, I did.
Name one thing about it without Googling right now.
>Who said anything about where the slaves originated from? I asked about slaves.
And I answered about slaves. I told you about slavery, and genocide to boot. So it sounds like you're just looking for a distraction.
>Why is UMass not addressing today's slaves.
Are you? Do you make sure all the products you use are made without slave labor? Or are you "virtue signalling" right now?
>Pushing to change the name of a street because of the word plantation is about as shallow as you can get.
Pushing against it for effectively no reason is shallower.
[deleted] OP t1_irz1zpp wrote
>Pushing against it for effectively no reason is shallower.
No, that's nonsense. If things are fine as they are in any given situation, e.g. the Grafton Hill's array of street names, telling someone not to intervene to make a change is sensible. Others have already mentioned the burden it puts on the thousands of people who live on this street to change all their documents, and the tens of thousands of dollars on new street signage, as well as the fact that people don't like their street names being changed as evidenced by people's responses to Kilby Street's name being changed, and you have a pretty good set of reasons.
The fact that some people here, yours truly not included, don't know the history is further proof of the argument that no one views "plantation" in some historical sense. It's viewed as the word for this street, right now, not the slavery that didn't even exist in the area when Quinsigamond Plantation was named.
Kirbyoto t1_is1xp5f wrote
>If things are fine as they are in any given situation, e.g. the Grafton Hill's array of street names, telling someone not to intervene to make a change is sensible.
So literally your only argument is that all change is inherently bad and has to be hyper-justified. There's a lot more examples of that in the city for you to freak out about than just the name of one street. Frankly I'm just disregarding this argument entirely, in the wake of all the changes Worcester has gone through I think pretending anyone cares about one street name is truly disingenuous.
>The fact that some people here, yours truly not included, don't know the history is further proof of the argument that no one views "plantation" in some historical sense.
You can know the connotations of the word "plantation" without knowing the specific history of Quinsigamond plantation. This is like arguing that if you know what a castle is, then you must know the history of Windsor castle.
>not the slavery that didn't even exist in the area when Quinsigamond Plantation was named.
As established earlier, there was slavery in the area - the enslavement of Native Americans. Like I said, nobody who's mad about this change knows anything about the history of Quinsigamond Plantation, including you.
-Horatio_Alger_Jr- t1_is03lm8 wrote
>Yes it's almost like Quinsigamond Plantation isn't tremendously important to history and the people furiously defending its namesake are just looking for things to be upset about. Again, did you know a single thing about it before today?
It is very important to the history of the area and country.
>Name one thing about it without Googling right now.
The Johnson massacre.
>And I answered about slaves. I told you about slavery, and genocide to boot. So it sounds like you're just looking for a distraction.
A distraction?
>Are you? Do you make sure all the products you use are made without slave labor? Or are you "virtue signalling" right now?
I do. I use sites like still made in the US and others before I purchase most things. It really does not matter to the conversation though, as I am not trying to change the name of anything.
>Pushing against it for effectively no reason is shallower.
No reason? Why do you say that?
Kirbyoto t1_is1x4fa wrote
>It is very important to the history of the area and country.
Literally everything that happens is technically important to history. But "it's important to history" and "people in the area know and/or care about it" are two different statements.
>The Johnson massacre.
Ah, so the one thing you knew is "well the natives killed some people too". Convenient.
>A distraction?
Yes, a way for you to avoid the actual point, which is that the Quinsigamond Plantation does have a history with slavery and genocide. Your little "oh who said anything about AFRICAN slavery" schtick was just stalling for time.
>I use sites like still made in the US and others before I purchase most things.
And where do those companies get their materials from? Do you think you can circumvent international capitalism with smart choices from a website?
>It really does not matter to the conversation though, as I am not trying to change the name of anything.
You are trying to preserve the name of something that you have no genuine reason to care about. Also, it does matter to the conversation, since your main reason that UMASS shouldn't advocate for the name being changed is that you personally believe they aren't morally pure enough to "deserve" it.
>No reason? Why do you say that?
I mean you don't really care. Nobody in this thread does. Pretending that a street name being changed is somehow offensive or disgusting to you is obviously fake shit. What you actually care about is the idea of things becoming "more PC", hence why a street name has become the flashpoint for all of Worcester's dingy little conservatives to crawl out of the darkness and pretend they have something important to say.
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