Submitted by littleblackcar t3_10hv3hu in Washington
Comments
Hondaccord t1_j5biuvn wrote
It just got amended in Committee to remove that exemption.
Ma1eficent t1_j5bpuin wrote
Just means it will be thrown out as violating religious freedom.
Hondaccord t1_j5bt4xc wrote
Confessional privilege still exists so I don’t think you’re correct.
Ma1eficent t1_j5cbpw6 wrote
They amended it to require even if confessed.
Hondaccord t1_j5cd2gy wrote
They amended it to require clergy to report child abuse when admitted to in confession, like I said, but clergy are still exempt from testifying in court.
Ma1eficent t1_j5cg7xa wrote
Requiring to report breaks the vow just as testifying in court does.
Hondaccord t1_j5dcpo0 wrote
The vow and the law are two different things, idk what to tell you
Ma1eficent t1_j5qnz8c wrote
Well in this country the first amendment says the government can't make laws that prohibit practice of a religion. And confession and its protection is a pretty big part of Christianity. There's just no way it survives a legal challenge on first amendment grounds.
Hondaccord t1_j5qvbbt wrote
Just like every other constitutional right there are limitations.
littleblackcar OP t1_j5cxg9y wrote
One could make the argument that the rights of the child to be safe from abusive caretakers outweigh any religious liberty rights of the adult(s) in these situations.
littleblackcar OP t1_j5bmr39 wrote
🙌
zombieinferno t1_j5avhob wrote
In case anyone is not aware, this is common sense and up to this point the failure to include clergypersons has been a serious oversight.
The following individuals already fall under mandatory reporting laws in Washington:
- Medical practitioners
- Nurses
- Dentists
- Social service counselors/therapists
- Psychologists
- Medical examiners
- Pharmacists
- School personnel
- Child care providers
- Law enforcement officers
- Juvenile probation officers
- Corrections employees
- DSHS employees
- DCYF employees
- Placement and liaison specialists
- Responsible living skills program staff
- HOPE center staff
- State family and children's ombudsman
- Any volunteer in the ombudsman's office
- Adults residing with child suspected to have been severely abused
freckledtabby t1_j5cend0 wrote
Does it include when the clergy abuses children?
littleblackcar OP t1_j5cg518 wrote
Clergy are not mandatory reporters under current WA state law. That’s why we need to contact our legislators to ask them to pass these bills when they come up for a vote!
Use the links below to leave a brief comment in support of these bills for your representatives:
freckledtabby t1_j5d170h wrote
Thank you, I'll read the links. I was confused if they had to report possible abuse by churchgoers only, or clergy abusing churchgoers. Of course it should be any and all. -thanks again
Unique_Engineering_3 t1_j5b0bkr wrote
Church based counseling is correlated with a lot of really terrible and chronic abuses.
Nearly_Pointless t1_j5aooem wrote
It’s not like they’re going to tell in themselves…
InsertScreenNameHere t1_j5c6a88 wrote
True but when they get caught everyone who knew about it will go down with them. Just need a few examples made and hopefully no one will be willing to hide those kind of secrets anymore.
Actor412 t1_j5b6lo1 wrote
The churches will come out in force against this, like they did when they fought for the right to lie to pregnant women through pregnancy centers. (They won, btw.)
M_A_X_77 t1_j5bld5x wrote
This is one of the many reasons why religion is bullshit. They should be more than willing to report child abuse, not fighting to cover it up.
Hondaccord t1_j5bixg6 wrote
No churches testified against it, the Catholic Church actually supported it
Actor412 t1_j5btuwj wrote
No, when the bill came up to regulate pregnancy crisis centers (ie, force them to tell the truth and not lie to ypung mothers), Catholic groups lined up to fight it. Which isnt surprisong since most of them are run by the RCC.
It didnt pass, thanks to them.
Hondaccord t1_j5bu0yz wrote
I’m referring to the child abuse/mandated reporter bill.
Actor412 t1_j5clok6 wrote
Huh. So even though there has been no hearings on this bill, that it hasn't even been presented to a committee, you claim that "no church testified against it." Since that doesn't make sense, and I assumed you were here in good faith and actually read my post, it was logical to conclude that you were talking about the failed bill on pregnancy crisis centers.
Hondaccord t1_j5dcm4u wrote
You wanna double check that? HB 1098
Actor412 t1_j5doj57 wrote
So? You wrote a very bad sentence, something that I took at face value, and gave you the reasons why I read it that way. You don't like it? Then learn how to write.
Hondaccord t1_j5f829v wrote
Big feelings over here. I’m just trying to help give more information on these bills.
Actor412 t1_j5g11bp wrote
Then why not just post the links? Why bother replying to some random redditor? You sound like someone with a hidden agenda.
Hondaccord t1_j5gwdah wrote
Yup I’m on here to spread a conspiracy by giving factual information about bills and the legislature when people make posts about it.
Actor412 t1_j5h274v wrote
All you've done is made a comment about a bill that was introduced two weeks ago. Do you have a source for that "factual information"? You could have posted it by now, you know.
Hondaccord t1_j5hazyh wrote
It wasn’t just introduced, it passed out of committee. And I’m commenting about it because it’s what this whole post is about?
Actor412 t1_j5ht4p1 wrote
1- If you wanted to comment, you'd make you own thread, instead of commenting on mine. Why bother?
2- The only thing of value you've said on this thread is your claim that "the CC supports it." That was several replies ago. Your signal-to-noise ratio lays heavily on the noise side.
3- If you want to give me a link about the CCs attitude towards the bill, I'd like to read it.
tipsup t1_j5ayd6x wrote
Jesus. Wow!
There’s no current laws that requires this?
It’s 2023! And they have federal/state tax exemption status.
WWPLD t1_j5ck1gz wrote
The LDS (mormon) Church will not like this...
MEATPOPSCI_irl t1_j5b8jfu wrote
How is this not a law already?!?
portland_speedball t1_j5bdmty wrote
> some 120 proposed bills amending mandatory reporter laws failed due in part to resistance from the Roman Catholic Church, the Mormon church and Jehovah’s Witnesses
What a joke. Of course a bunch of kid diddlers don’t want any rules that require them to report kid diddling, they’d lose far too many people.
littleblackcar OP t1_j5biw7v wrote
WA voters, you can send a quick comment in support of these bills to your state representatives at these links:
UnkindPotato t1_j5bnh29 wrote
BUT if the clergy are required to report child abuse, how will they continue to abuse children?
Taikiteazy t1_j5cb26t wrote
You forgot the /s. I got it, but someone else didn't, lol.
MonstrousOctane t1_j5b1az2 wrote
Why does this need to be a bill? Do the right thing.
thedeadthatyetlive t1_j5bzei5 wrote
The whole basis of Christianity is that people don't do the right thing so frequently God had to be invented.
WWPLD t1_j5cjx7l wrote
For othodox religous folks what the "right thing to do" comes from the church. If the church doesn't support it then God must not support it.
faman00 t1_j5bhakh wrote
/r/pastorarrested tells me many clergy would need to plead the 5th if this were law.
[deleted] t1_j5bs6ba wrote
[removed]
bigfatfun t1_j5bu3f3 wrote
They’re the only ones that could report abuse before it happens!!
bedlog t1_j5cj7nj wrote
that means the priests will be arrested, so maybe thats a good thing
elmatador12 t1_j5cqdu3 wrote
I read the article and didn’t see this answered. (I could have missed it.)
Would this include all employees at a church or only specific clergy? I only ask because I know there are ministry leaders at churches that hear a lot of things but they aren’t technically “clergy”.
Also, this would not include confessions which I know they are doing so it’s easier to pass. I hope they close that loophole soon.
The churches argument is that it would eliminate trust in the church which I find pretty ironic since the church is the one being accused of abusing kids.
Hondaccord t1_j5dezm7 wrote
Anybody who is a “spiritual leader” counts under this bill so ministry leaders would count. It was amended in Committee to require clergy to report abuse even if the information came from confession.
elmatador12 t1_j5dg3uo wrote
Oh nice. That’s great on both counts. Thank you.
KittenKoder t1_j5cr1et wrote
About time, this needed to be a law long ago. Many of the preachers are party to the abuse, and this will allow them to be prosecuted.
Ok_Boysenberry1198 t1_j5cxvna wrote
Mormons ain’t gonna be happy about that one
beersforbreakfast91 t1_j5d2a13 wrote
It would have already been the good Christian MORAL thing to do. But they haven't been doing it for hundreds of years already. You think being mandated by the government is gonna make them change their ways?
Taikiteazy t1_j5cb4kw wrote
Right, how tf will they enforce this? Cops aren't allowed inside the churches.....
cburroughs10 t1_j5bxtf3 wrote
You know who else aren’t mandated reporters? Firefighters and EMTs
CBthrowaway2022 t1_j5axrsw wrote
"As currently written, the proposed bill in the Legislature would mandate that clergy report child abuse or neglect if they “received the information from any source other than from a confession.” "
Bullshit. Include confession.