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an_m_8ed t1_j3ht2wc wrote

Reply to comment by pusheenforchange in If you're looking for a dog, please consider one of our long-time residents by ktcat146

Pit bulls usually aren't the problem, it's the lack of attention, guidance, and love that makes any dog misbehave.

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pusheenforchange t1_j3hw7vk wrote

That's certainly part of it - they tend to attract a certain class of people, which leads to an extreme lack of spaying and neutering that's the main problem with pit bulls. The secondary problem is that when they get violent, their genetic programming makes them do way more damage than other breeds of dogs, which is why they need to be strictly controlled at both an individual and societal level.

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profgreybush t1_j3jg7id wrote

More than a German shepherd? Rottie? Doberman? Any of those large breed dogs can cause the same amount of damage. A golden retriever and a pitbull both have around 235 pounds of bite force iirc.

Gotta treat animals as individuals. Get to know each one. Upbringing matters more than anything.

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pusheenforchange t1_j3jihnn wrote

I honestly can't say whether nature or nurture is the cause of the statistics, but even when you cheese is and break pit bulls up into multiple breeds and reclassify them as mixes, the Numbers are simply overwhelming. If that's nature, we need to strictly enforce spaying and neutering legally prior to any adoption. If that's nurture, then we need to restrict adoption to specifically certified individuals who can prove they can handle the needs of the breed. I'm in favor of both, as a start. I think the humane decision would be to phase them out as a breed through enforced spaying and neutering. And automatically put down any dog that threatens a human, immediately.

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profgreybush t1_j3jojfo wrote

All animal behavorists say you gotta treat each dog as an individual. Unfortunately, right now pits are the most abused dogs in the world. Before it was german shepherds, dobermans, rotties, etc. Every John Wick wannabe "tough guy" gets one for protection.

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wolf_spanky t1_j3i59xn wrote

It’s very obviously a breed problem. Look at statistics on fatalities and dog attacks vs. other breeds.

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an_m_8ed t1_j3ihypz wrote

The statistics don't show causality to my knowledge. Breeds have a selection bias, for example, some people who like having pit bulls (whatever you define those as since it's not really a breed) may also be the type to abuse them or train them to attack/guard because that's why they selected the breed, leading to higher-than-normal fatalities and dog attacks than other breeds. That's not a breed problem, that's an owner/breeder/human problem. The statistics that prove causality are inconclusive at best. There are many perfectly sweet pit bulls and many perfectly dangerous dogs that are not pit bulls. If one is looking for a dog, you have to look at the dog's history and present behavior, not the breed, if you want to find a dog that fits your goals, with some leeway of breed type to match your lifestyle. Don't let the breed dissuade you completely from finding a good fit.

Now, that's not to say that certain breeds don't have tendencies because of their breed type (herder, retriever, hound, etc.) There was a recent study showing, yes, generally speaking, a breed within a category will have these tendencies from the blood line as a breed group, but attacks, cuddling, barking, etc. within the breed varies widely and will not tell you the personality and temperament of the dog itself. It's dependent on the dog and experience(s) with breeders and owners. This suggests that these "pit bulls" should be assessed individually and take into account lifestyle factors from the breed categories.

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wolf_spanky t1_j3ik954 wrote

Yes, they do show casualties. It’s data that’s been documented for a long ass time. Sorry, bud.

  • From 2010 to June 2021, 60% of all fatal dog bites in the U.S. involved a pit bull or pit bull mix. The second deadliest breed was Rottweilers at a whopping...7%

  • From 2005 to 2020, pit bulls were responsible for 67% of the 568 Americans killed by dogs.

  • Pit bulls and Rottweilers make up 77% of all fatal dog bites, despite being only ~6% of the U.S. dog population.

  • Pit bull terriers are 48% more likely to attack unprovoked than other dog breeds.

  • Pit bulls are 4.4x more likely to cause complex wounds during their attacks than other breeds.

  • Pit bull attacks have higher morbidity rates, higher hospital charges, and a higher risk of death than attacks by other breeds.

  • From 2005 to 2017, 54% of fatal dog attacks were inflicted by family dogs, and 64% of those dogs were pit bulls.

  • From 2005 to 2019, 64 infants were killed by dogs. Pit bulls were responsible for 48% of those deaths.

  • In 2019, pit bulls were to blame for 91% of all fatal dog attacks in Texas.

  • A Level 1 Trauma Center in Richmond, VA did a study from 2007-2017 which found that out of 356 patients admitted for dog bites, 53% of those dogs were a pit bull or pit bull mix, with the next closest breed being a Labrador/Labrador mix at 10%.

  • You are 213% (WTF!!!) more likely to get a severe injury from a pit bull than other breeds.

  • Pit bulls or pit bull mixes responsible for/total fatal dog attacks in the U.S., by year:

2016: 23/31 (74%) 2017: 29/39 (74%) 2018: 25/34 (74%) 2019: 33/48 (69%) nice 2020: 33/46 (72%) 2021: 37/51 (73%)

  • Here are some dog shelter statistics on pit bulls/pit bull mixes:

More than 50% of all pit bulls in the U.S. are up for sale or adoption Most of the pit bulls put up for sale or adoption were given up by their former owners Between 19% and 32% of all dogs taken to shelters are pit bulls Pit bulls remain in shelters approximately 3x as long as other breeds 40% of pit bulls in shelters are euthanized every year (a different source goes as high as 80%) The adoption rate for pit bulls sits at 4% nationally

  • Between 2013 and 2021, 20 states confirmed that pit bulls were involved in most dog bite incidents.

  • Pit bulls are used for dogfighting more than other breeds, likely due to their natural aggression.

  • The U.S. Army banned pit bulls from military housing due to their dangerous nature.

Sources:

https://www.coloradoinjurylaw.com/dog-bite-statistics/

https://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-studies-level-1-trauma-table-2011-present.php (on this page alone there are 111 mentions of "pit bull")

https://pawsomeadvice.com/dog/pit-bull-statistics/

https://dogbitelaw.com/vicious-dogs/pit-bulls-facts-and-figures

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whatyouwant5 t1_j3itk9w wrote

Casualties is not causalities.

There is definitely selection bias.

Not surprising larger dogs cause more damage than smaller dogs. Gf's pig has bitten me 40-50 times. Barely scratched the skin. My lab mix bit her once and she went to the ER.

Why don't we see the same frequency issues with Danes and Tibetan mastiffs? There just aren't many.

Why are Pitts and rotties used as security dogs? Some may be due to genetic predisposition, but they are also plentiful, relatively cheap and human society knows they can fuck you up.

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wolf_spanky t1_j3ivnc0 wrote

Oh no, a typo….You got me. Not sure what your argument is, but I’m not seeing any sources. Snooze. Hmu when you can back it up.

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an_m_8ed t1_j3ix78c wrote

I'm not denying that there are increased risks of owning a pit bull because of many factors, breed included, but increased risk does not mean causality. These lines of thinking are like saying ice cream consumption increases when Americans wear swimsuits, therefore swimsuits make you eat ice cream. No. That's not how statistics work.

Regardless, I stand by my point that someone should not be deterred from owning a pit bull because of it's breed alone. This should be assessed on an individual dog and owner basis, and all factors should be taken into account.

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arctic_olive t1_j3n4ya6 wrote

"Thats not how statistics work?" lol. I'm no stats expert, but selection bias usually refers to a situation where sampling is occurring in a study from a group/population/etc right? I think the word you might be looking for is "selective breeding?". From what I can tell, these studies evaluate ALL dog bites - nothing is being selectively sampled here.

Also, the ice cream argument doesn't make any sense in this context. There is a direct cause and effect happening here. If a dog bites someone, the dog causes the bite. You can't have dog bites without dogs. Are you saying the bites are actually due to cats or something? Sure, there are other factors such as upbringing that can affect these statistics, but that doesn't change the fact that they're statically more likely to be dangerous.

Of course the history of each dog should be considered regardless of breed, but it is reasonable to not adopt a pitbull because of these statistics.

P.S. I hope all the adorable animals from this post find loving homes :)

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wolf_spanky t1_j3j2vk2 wrote

How can you read this information I provide you and still say that someone should not be deterred from owning a dangerous animal?

You clearly can’t digest stats and you don’t even provide a good example for your counter argument. Read the statistics. It samples ALL dogs. There is no selection bias. People in swim suits eating ice cream? What in the community college are you on about? That doesn’t even work as an argument.

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>I'm not denying that there are increased risks of owning a pit bull because of many factors, breed included, but increased risk does not mean causality.
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>Regardless, I stand by my point that someone should not be deterred from owning a pit bull because of it's breed alone.

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what.

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Th3seViolentDelights t1_j3jwxxv wrote

As a pit bull owner, the day that a pit bull hater is triggered on reddit is a good day.

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wolf_spanky t1_j3jx5a2 wrote

I don’t care about what you think. There are academic articles that prove my point. You can feel however you want.

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Th3seViolentDelights t1_j3jx9bd wrote

Stay mad.

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wolf_spanky t1_j3jxt8n wrote

Stay ignorant and uneducated.

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Th3seViolentDelights t1_j3jy2sb wrote

I'm petting my pit bull right now, rubbing his belly about to give him treats. Then I'll walk him later, IN PUBLIC.

By the way, there are 4 million domestic pit bulls in the US. So how do you get a "majority of 4 million are killers" from that stat? Can't wait to hear it.

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wolf_spanky t1_j3jyrkk wrote

Okay? You can do whatever you want. I don’t care. Breed them, walk them, I don’t care. And now you’re putting words into my mouth. See my comment above and read the stats. Cry me a river.

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Th3seViolentDelights t1_j3kiy27 wrote

You didn't answer the question. Show me that the majority of 4 million domestic pit bulls are aggressive killers.

Go back to your pit bull hate sub where you guys celebrate dog abuse.

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wolf_spanky t1_j3kjmlu wrote

When did I say that? Are you okay? Celebrate dog abuse? Wtf are you on about? You’re unwell. Get some help.

I provided my sources. You’ve proven to be nothing but an ignorant person who talks like a child. Read my above comment and leave me alone.

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