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Just another way for corporations to steal your money.

NOPE. Fuck Oregon. They can govern themselves and stay the hell out of everyone else's business. Make the cheap fucks pay sales tax in Washington. They're just mad some people buy stuff in Washington and take it back to oregon for deposit. So make the can different. Don't try to make Washington into Oregon. We can fuck our state up just fine without Oregon's help.

And this isn’t even Oregon, it is Oregon’s business interests pushing an agenda…

I am a spectator from GA. Don't knock down your brotherly state; Oregon. I see it as a healthy sibling rivalry. At least Oregon is more sane than your eastern neighbor, Idaho. We, on the other hand, are still a crazy southern state, but every surrounding state, starting with Alabama and Florida, outfoxxes us on that department. I wish I was in the'cascadia' neighborhood.

>So make the can different.

This is how it works in Ohio/Michigan.

We Washingtonians have our reasons for disliking Oregon. If I go to work in Oregon but still live in Washington, (I live on the border between us), they charge state income tax. When they come here to shop, we forgive them the state sales tax. Now they want to make us pay deposit? (insert choice cuss words here).

How does it work? Does an Oregon resident only provide an ID at the checkout register and get exempted from sales tax?

Heck yeah! Do you know how much more recycling would happen? How much less litter there would be? I’m on board. Bottle bills are great.

[This is no longer true. ](http://Oregonians, Get Ready To Pay Sales Tax In Washington https://www.opb.org/pf/news/article/oregon-washington-sales-tax-new-law/)

Oregonians no longer get to forgo paying sales tax in Washington. They must save their receipts and claim them all at once. I could see businesses doing this but it seems unlikely that the average Oregonian is doing it.

It is really annoying that Oregon is trying to export their system of deposit up here. When I lived there a few years back, the bottle drop locations were constantly full and if you didn't throw yours all the way to the back, people could open the side door (this is a shipping container where the bags were thrown) and they'd either physically steal the bag of cans or steal it by way of peeling your redemption code off and replacing yours with theirs and having the redemption money put in their account. Now, I live just across the river and have homeless digging through the recycle to take bottles and cans and redeem them in Oregon. They also did this in Oregon. It seems to me like a way to keep them earning cash, though it's definitely an unintended consequence.

I loved living in Oregon but it was much cheaper (at the time) to cross the river and live in Washington. I still love to visit Oregon and have many friends there, but the state has a way of making the most onerous policies. I always like to say, when living there: why do it the right way when you can do it the Oregon way? Washington, in my opinion, is set up more like other states. Oregon likes to reinvent the wheel.

Born, raised, lived in Oregon most of my life. Hate the refund system. I have better things to do then return cans. Not a profit either, to get your money back. Curbside is the way to go. No one wants to return bottles and cans.

How exactly would this fuck up our state? It actually sounds like a pretty beneficial program, and it pushes the cost of recycling back on distributors instead of the current system in Washington where we, the consumers, have to pay for the cost of recycling handling fees and pickups. https://obrc.com/oregons-bottle-bill/whats-special-about-the-oregon-model/

It would be nice if recycling centers didn't send all the plastic to a landfill anyway. Just seems like a way to make money without changing anything.

In Vancouver we already have a bad problem with homeless people digging through people’s recycling, stealing bottles and cans to take to Oregon, I wonder if this would make the problem better or worse.

If that agenda is reducing waste and increasing the volume and efficiency of recycling, then I don't see a problem with it.

They are different, the lids are all different! Wine cans get special lids, cocktail cans get special lids, and regular beer cans/soda cans get special lids. Tell your breweries/soda manufacturers to start putting no deposit lids on your cans! Call up Coca-Cola and tell them to stop sending bottles/cans with the deposit packaging to WA. Call up anheuser-Busch and tell them no more deposit lids for distribution in WA. I’m sure all the big manufacturers and distributors will get right on it.

They already are different.

As someone who grew up in NY I second this. As a kid it was a chore but my parents let us keep the deposit money. As an adult it just sounds like a waste of time

I'm not sure how the systems work in those states, but it seemed to work great when I lived in Denmark and no one had an issue with it, maybe it just needs some adjustment to be more like their system?

Have you ever dealt with the can return in Oregon?

You have to go to a room that has these machines that are broken half the time. The room itself reeks of spilled sugary soda gone bad. It is infested with yellow jackets attracted to the sugar. You are limited to a certain number of containers per day. The employees that work in these places are miserable.

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I've seen the machines, but no, I haven't done the bottle drop myself. It sounds like you can just get the blue bags and drop them off if you don't care about the deposit and don't want to deal with lines. And the limit of containers is 350 per day, which is far more than I use during my current recycling pickup time period of every 2 weeks. I could go months before collecting 350 containers.

As for the working and sanitary conditions, how is it different from a recycling center in Washington? Sounds like employee reviews are similar https://www.indeed.com/cmp/Bottledrop/reviews

https://www.indeed.com/cmp/Waste-Connections/reviews?fcountry=US&floc=Vancouver%2C+WA

I'm really not that familiar with the Bottledrop program in Oregon, so I appreciate the discussion. I'm definitely not sold on it, and it does seem to have some disadvantages and problems, but they also seem to do a better job in getting materials recycled. https://www.columbian.com/news/2018/oct/07/comparing-washington-oregon-oversight-on-recycling/

https://productstewardship.net/news/recovery-and-recycling-rates-oregon-and-washington

Ten cents a can, at 350 cans that's $35. Nice to be able to just throw that away I guess.

The problem is largely just that the refund you get back is not big enough for the amount of effort you have to put in, and that's true right now. Most aluminum recyclers here in Washington are paying about 30-45 cents a pound for scrap aluminum. I saved soda, beer and energy drink cans for nearly two straight years in bags in a storage space in my apartment, then loaded the bags up in my car and took them to a recycler only to get $4.50 for my two years of work.

It didn't hurt me to do it, and I like that I directly contributed to recycling that metal instead of it going to a landfill, but the amount of effort I put in for 15 pounds of cans to get less than $5 means it's not really worth the time or money to be doing that myself.

You were the one complaining about the can return, I was just suggesting an alternative option.

The current rate for recycling pickup in my area is $9.17 a month, so if I could just drop it off locally for free, I'd be saving money. Or even better, wait in line and get paid for my containers.

Curbside, we recycle without having to pay extra for the can and then get the money back when we return it. I recycle as much as ever.

Otegon is getting tired of paying deposits on Washington's cans and bottles.

They need to fix this problem without fking over Washingtonians, and it's a fairly safe bet that this shit won't fly.

Moved from WA to MI, and the bottle/can deposit is all kinds of bullshit wrapped into one inconvenient outdated model.

From machine infrastructure at grocers (always a couple broken, and the grocer has to dedicate square footage to something that they can't profit off of), the emissions and cost (time and fuel) from consumers, and the filth (can return kiosks are gross no matter what).

Oregon can get bent (on this and the gas pumping issue).

>Or even better, wait in line and get paid for my containers.

You aren't getting paid. You're returning a good and getting a DEPOSIT back. So that means every bottle and can suddenly becomes $.05-$.10 more to buy.

That is a good point, but the math still works out that it would be cheaper to pay a 5-10 cent deposit, and return the containers than the current system where I pay 9 bucks a month for pickup. $9.17 would get me 92 to 183 containers per month if I didn't return them. That is far more than I currently use, and if I did return the containers I would be compensated for the deposit.

You've openly stated you've never returned cans/bottles, so you're not really qualified to opine on the subject matter as it pertains to the practicality of the experience.

Currently, my household gets its groceries delivered, so can return for me is a special, often dedicated trip. It is (roughly) a 15-mile round trip to do so, so $2.75 in gas.

We do grocery delivery now partly due to can/bottle return. Do you know how quickly you want the whole system burned to the ground when you load up the cans when you go to pick up groceries to find out the kiosk is broken/closed? Now it's an hour long, 45 mile ordeal, thst costs $6.00 in gas because you've go to go to another store.

How about the cart? You want to do your grocery shopping in a cart someone (me) just used to haul 6 bags of cans/bottles in?

Then, there is the system itself. Every store is required to take any can back (think QFC had to take Safeway Select cans back, even though they don't sell them). Only QFC doesn't regularly download updated lists from the state or willfully excludes other brands' cans. They will still technically take them, but you have to go to the service desk and wait in line and do that whole song and dance. No thank you.

Safety.
I'm a 250lb bearded dude that knows the rules for avoiding getting into shit. I was nearly stabbed returning cans once by someone, unfortunately, having a mental crisis. It takes a tremendous amount of privlage to avoid this for many people.

Those are just a few of the madningly frustrating aspects. Curbside pickup is an exceptional value for dollar at $9.17/month. Especially since you'll likely still be paying most of that for paper/plastic/no-deposit curbside pick up.

Edit to add last scentence.

Hi guys, current Oregonian here. You don’t want this.

Pay extra for cans. Get it back when you recycle. Seems easy but we have to store our cans separate inside so our cans don’t get pillaged before we can take them.

Also the bottle drop location system is terrible - the few bottle drops by us “limit” the amount we can return per quarter which is annoying. The other drop locations can be overrun and feel pretty unsafe.

Fairly confident I read that this industry makes money charging us extra up front and then redeeming the cans people don’t bother to redeem themselves. Oregon can be a lot of great things and a lot of terrible things. This one falls into the latter.

I'm a lot more likely to recycle if I don't have to do all that. They can keep the 50 cents if they take em from curbside regularly.

Michigan has the highest deposit rates in the county. SE Michigan is also covered in litter. Those two things have zero correlation.

>You've openly stated you've never returned cans/bottles, so you're not really qualified to opine on the subject matter as it pertains to the practicality of the experience.

I wasn't offering my opinion on the practicality of the experience. That is why I specifically said I was trying to learn more about the system. It's not an entirely foreign concept to me. I've recycled in other areas, just not specifically in Oregon. And as I stated before, I appreciate the insight into their system, no need for the condescension.

>Curbside pickup is an exceptional value for dollar at $9.17/month.

I still don't see how this is preferable, I live in an urban area, not rural like yourself, and I don't get groceries delivered so I could just drop off my containers when I went to the store right? And if I didn't care about getting the deposit back, I'd still be spending less than the $9.17 a month I currently pay, and wouldn't have to deal with the hassle of the machines.

The problem is that so much of the material that gets thrown into recycling bins in Washington doesn't actually get recycled. It's either contaminated or simply can't be recycled.https://ecology.wa.gov/Waste-Toxics/Reducing-recycling-waste/Strategic-policy-and-planning/Contamination-reduction Oregon's system has its own problems, but it at least does a better job of achieving its purpose of actually recycling materials.

My city doesnt offer any sort of recycling, will this bill change things? Yes, my cost of good will increase while nothing else changes.

Stop taxing shit for private companies to profit from.

No evidence it wouldn't be worse with the proposed law. Tons of people would pitch cans rather than deal with the returns. There would also be huge backlash adding further to grocery costs yo already high inflation as well free time. It would be a huge mistake.

You pay extra upfront. Must be nice to be able to afford a higher grocery bill.

That too.

>No evidence it wouldn't be worse with the proposed law. There is clear evidence Oregon does a better job than Washington at recycling https://productstewardship.net/news/recovery-and-recycling-rates-oregon-and-washington

https://www.columbian.com/news/2018/oct/07/comparing-washington-oregon-oversight-on-recycling/

>There would also be huge backlash adding further to grocery costs yo already high inflation as well free time.

Yeah, im sure there would be backlash, because people always seem to resist change. However, if you factor in the cost of processing fees and pickup costs, most people would actually be saving money with the deposit system.

It is $9.17 a month for recycling pickup in my area. With Oregons system, I'd pay an extra 10 cents per container, but I'd get that money back when I returned them. So I'd be saving $9.17 a month.

>I live in an urban area, not rural like yourself

I live in Detroit.

>I could just drop off my containers when I went to the store, right?

More than once, I've gone to the store, and the kiosk isn't open. Now you need groceries and you've got a car full of trash.

I've addressed all of your impressions, and they are just not the what winds up playing out. Seriously, take the L and trust a primary source.

>I'd still be spending less than the $9.17 a month.

This is a red herring. What about the recycle bin for paper and such? I have that here and pay for it, but I still have to hassle with can deposits. I could not return them and forgo my deposit because of the hassle, which is completely incongruent with the intent that it will increase recycling.

Seriously, take the L.

Sounds like the Department of Licensing but with Angry Insects and additional stupid rules.

>I live in Detroit.

Then why are you commenting about the Oregon bottle dropoff? That is misleading as fuck. You are talking about a completely different system there.

>More than once, I've gone to the store, and the kiosk isn't open. Now you need groceries and you've got a car full of trash.

In Oregon, you can just drop it off in a blue bag if you dont want to wait for a kiosk https://bottledrop.com/locations/?question=7977&ans=7980&text=Gresham&latLng_lng=-122.4356657&latLng_lat=45.5044715

>Seriously, take the L and trust a primary source.

How are you a primary source if you don't even live in Oregon?

> have that here and pay for it

In many parts of Oregon, they don't, though. Plus, they have less material that needs to be picked up.

This isn't really a "washington thing" though. Anywhere that has recycling will have this issue

>Then why are you commenting about the Oregon bottle dropoff?

Because this is a Washington sub, and I lived there for near to 4 decades and still have an interest in the area (in real property and in practicality as I'm there regularly) Furthermore, I've returned cans in Oregon, and the system is functionally the same as what I have to deal with hith in Michigan. This is also a discussion of a post about a bill being lobbied for in Washington, so not even spefic to Oregon.

>That is misleading as fuck. You are talking about a completely different system there.

That's your impression, so I'm not going to shit on it. But, they are the exact same equipment (I have spent a ton of time in the Columbia River Gorge area and have dealt with can return in rural areas and in Portland.

That is the 2nd time you have made assumptions , and it bit you. Maybe stop doing that?

>In many parts of Oregon, they don't, though.

So, no curbside recycle pickup at all? Paper is just tossed? Non-depoait glass/aluminum/plastic too? Sounds like 1981, I'd advise passing on that regression.

>Plus, they have less material that needs to be picked up.

Less isn't zero.

You never addressed a ton of the problems I presented (closed kiosks with a car full of cans/bottles, safety, time and money costs, dirty carts), all of which exist regardless of geography. You came into this saying you didn't know, amd were just asking questions (though it would appear you live in the Vancouver, WA area based on post history, so it stands to reason you're more experienced than you're letting on).

Just be transparent. You are a cheap ass who wants their $9.17 a month back, damn the consequences.

Anyway, good chat. It was nice to engage in some rhetoric.

I'm out.

Guess your gas is free and time has no value.

If it was the way it used to be it would be great... we took our glass pop bottles back to the grocery store where we bought them. The grocery checker gave us the cash back.

No thanks, I dont want someone from Oregon trying to push oregon ideas on Washington. Theres a reason why I dont live in oregon

We have curbside in Kennewick. I just don't often use it because the wind blows the cans down the street. So I save them in the house and periodically drop them off at the bins over in Richland.

It is not as much of an issue in Oregon though, that is my point.https://resource-recycling.com/plastics/2020/08/12/oregon-deposit-return-rate-increased-in-2019/amp/

>That is the 2nd time you have made assumptions , and it bit you. Maybe stop doing that?

Listen, I tried to be polite and learn more about the Oregon system in particular because that is what this article is proposing to expand to Washington. I've recycled in many different areas, but i was curious about the particulars of their systme. But it seems like I know more about that system than you, and since you've been condescending as fuck the whole time, and since you don't even live in Washington anymore, you can fuck off.

They have dropoff locations at grocery stores, so you can just drop the cans off when you go grocery shopping. So, yes, it isn't costing me anymore in gas and minimal extra time dropping off the cans.

We moved from OR to WA. Not having to keep our cans separate from the general recycling was liberating. We'd honestly given up on separating them out even before we moved just because they were a pain to deal with and not worth the time. They were still recycled, just through regular recycling.

And with municipal recycling in place, bottle deposits don't have a very significant impact in general. I think the difference that bottle deposits create is just that people who could use every cent are probably picking up cans that would be ignored otherwise.

Anyways, "the co-op" is the sole recipient of all unclaimed deposit state wide. Bottles from Washington are not legal to take to BottleDrop in Oregon, but there's no technical measures in place preventing so. So, OBRC (the co-op) loses 10 cents for every Washington can redeemed in Oregon. The only thing preventing this from happening right now is staff intervention at redemption center where they may ask people to see their Oregon ID or receipt from people who arrive in Washington plated vehicles. So, the co-op is wanting to bottle bill Washington so their industry members can avoid having to code containers differently and to maximize opportunity on profiting on unclaimed deposit on Washington side if it's implemented.

From the article:

>The co-op is also involved in discussion around a bottle redemption program in neighboring Washington state, something Bailey said is the next big step forward for the region and a massive opportunity.
>
>“If Washington and Oregon were to have aligned systems, imagine being able to live in Vancouver, shop in Oregon, return your containers in Vancouver,” he said. “Have it be able to cross state lines. Imagine the sort of critical mass that you would get, of PET and aluminum and glass, and the cool things you could do with that – the next steps, the flaking, the pelletizing.”

Yea I did the opposite move, MI to WA and in both I just throw them in the recycle anyway. The deposit was such a pain to actually use.

Fuck that noise. Next they will push that we can’t pump our own gas

I lived in OR for 1 year and the recycling is bullshit. You have to buy special bags and get a card and collect bags full of cans that you then have to drive to a dirty bin in front of a store. The bins are always full and you have to walk your ridiculous bags back to the car and store them until hopefully someone empties the bin. It is the worst most inconvenient system I have ever experienced.

Do you not recycle anything else? We drink a decent amount of cans of soda per month, but most of our recycling is still paper and boxes. Having an extra step in recycling cans doesn't change the fact that we still have other recycling, so it wouldn't really be saving any money.

It's been years since I dealt with bottle returns and the amount you get back just never seemed worth the effort. I would much rather pay an extra $10/mo just to not have to ever go anywhere near a bottle return. When I was a kid, we'd just shove our cans in a bag until a random person would come knocking to ask if we had any cans.

In Astoria I wait in line for my turn only to have the machine break down or spit out the bottle because it couldn't be read. And after you finally get the task done you take the ticket into the store to get your $2.40 back. Honestly, it's easier to just leave the cans in the parking lot for a kid to find and make the $$.

Would Washington retailers raise prices on pop, etc. because they will have to devote space to store all the cans and bottles and maintain the machines?

Somehow Oregon stores can charge deposit for a zillion cans in one purchase yet they will also limit how many you can return at once.

Just another tax. Pay more, get nothing for it.