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sjitz t1_j63tueo wrote

Business as usual in the Netherlands. If this happened anywhere else it'd truly be uplifting.

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Randouser555 t1_j647cqi wrote

Until you find out how much money they spent on it.

Edit: all these downvoters....65 million could revamp every bike stall in the country. This is one and is a trek to and from the facility. Defeats the purpose of bike convenience.

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kalaminu t1_j64cbsx wrote

It doesn't matter what they spent on it. When will you people understand that doing nothing about climate change will be both more expensive and probably result in a serious case of death.

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Tophatt69 t1_j66e3bb wrote

He never said anything about doing nothing, just that it's a lot for a underwater bike garage...that seems very impractical. You can easily store bikes at home, and it allows instant access to the bike.

You can also check his edit and he clarifies his issue with it. You're just jumping to some anti climate change argument that wasnt made.

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SubjectiveAlbatross t1_j676p5v wrote

>just that it's a lot for a underwater bike garage...that seems very impractical. You can easily store bikes at home, and it allows instant access to the bike. You can also check his edit and he clarifies his issue with it.

Which is all complete nonsense.

This garage is not a replacement for home storage – they're not stupid. Perhaps you didn't read the article beyond the title, but this is a garage at Amsterdam's central railway station. It's intended to (1) hold one's bike when one rides to the station to take the train, or perhaps more commonly given its city-center location, (2) hold one's second commute bike. That's a thing because there isn't enough room for everyone to take their bicycles onto the train. Many people thus have one bike they keep at home to ride to their local train station, and then another at the station near their workplace to complete the commute once they get off the train.

60 million Euros is not crazy for these large and highly-trafficked facilities (underground bicycle garages of comparable sizes in Utrecht and Den Haag in less challenging geology/geography cost 30-50 million), and not even remotely enough to "revamp every bike stall in the country" when there are 23 million bikes there.

It's not "a trek" nor "inconvenient" nor "impractical", because again you're not walking from home to this garage just to ride around the neighborhood, and also because it's right in front of the station it serves, connected directly with a tunneled passage. He's fabricating drama without knowing anything about the garage or the country.

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alc4pwned t1_j64iss8 wrote

You say that as though you think cars are the primary cause of climate change. Even in a very car dependent place like the US, personal vehicles only make up like 11% of total CO2 emissions. EVs will lower that significantly. I think a lot of people are hyper-focusing on cars and ignoring many of the much bigger problems. Comfortable western lifestyles are incredibly carbon intensive in general, even in the Netherlands.

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SubjectiveAlbatross t1_j64u9nl wrote

It's a bit more than 15% (and probably higher once you account for all the supporting infrastructure and induced sprawl). Moreover the "it's only xx%!" schtick is itself disingenuous. I've seen an Australian argue for example that "we're only responsible for 1%, we shouldn't have to do anything!" (completely ignoring in that case their high per capita emissions), the problem being that if you take these locality/sector exceptions to the full logical extent then nearly everything is exempt and very little gets done. 15% is a significant slice of the pie, and there's very little else that's "much bigger".

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alc4pwned t1_j64wyer wrote

That’s if you use emissions from all “light duty vehicles”. They break it down further in the pdf, for “passenger cars” it’s more like 9%. I think the 11% was assuming you add some portion of light duty trucks to that as well but I don’t quite remember.

I’m not saying 11% +/- isn’t significant. But the transition to EVs and renewables is already going to dramatically reduce that number. So perhaps it would be more productive if Reddit devoted half as much energy as they do to cars to other sources of emissions.

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kalaminu t1_j64mexd wrote

Ofc they're not but my point still stands. Doin nothing will be more expensive in the long run, both in financial terms and human costs.

The sensible ones of us know that the real polluters and wasters is big business who have done a very effective job of convincing the public they need to recycle when we all know that waste is their #1 product. And don't get me started on the super rich buzzing around on their private jets pumping out more co2 that whole countries.

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alc4pwned t1_j6501r3 wrote

> The sensible ones of us know that the real polluters and wasters is big business who have done a very effective job of convincing the public they need to recycle when we all know that waste is their #1 product.

That’s not sensible though, that’s also just shifting the blame. Those businesses are producing goods/services for us. The emissions required to manufacture a TV you bought is a part of your carbon footprint. The emissions generated by the banking system or by Reddit servers etc are also part of our carbon footprints.

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Minneapolisveganaf t1_j64mtle wrote

Animal production is probably the biggest and easiest thing we could do to lower the footprint.

Flying for vacations. Just don't do it.

But the problem is that basically every person who can fly or eat a mostly meat diet does. Neither of which is necessary.

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XKSS_ t1_j64fk67 wrote

Probably less than 1 more lane on a US highway lol

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fernser t1_j64m7tf wrote

Until you find out how much money it saves individuals and society as a whole during its use.

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SubjectiveAlbatross t1_j64n9cm wrote

€60 million is an absolute bargain for something this big, right in the heart of the city too.

Edit:

>is a trek to and from the facility

It's literally under the canal directly in front of the station square, and has a direct tunneled passage into the station. Around 150 meters center-to-center.

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TheRealMotherOfOP t1_j6584qb wrote

Free for the first 24h but 1.35€ fee a day after, it will eventually pay itself back too and that's incredibly cheap compared to car parking, hope it will promote people taking the bike to Amsterdam.

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superstrijder16 t1_j66iqmz wrote

On the other hand with the number of people who will use it as commuters it might only pay for the staff who are running security. But it's still worth it

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Randouser555 t1_j65imgq wrote

65m could revamp every bike parking in the country. This was for one facility.

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MaxSpringPuma t1_j65myba wrote

How else was a 7000 space facility going to be built in that area? Its sleek, modern, and hidden away as infrastructure like that should. It's a 65M investment for something that should be around for 100 years

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Randouser555 t1_j66kj3v wrote

Bike storage towers. Cheap and easy to roll out. Mass storage with no additional distance to utilize facility itself.

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MaxSpringPuma t1_j66q45c wrote

Yes, and then you've got a bike tower in the middle of one of the most picturesque cities in the world.

I doubt they would build a 65M underground bike park in the suburbs, but in the middle of the city it's understandable

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SubjectiveAlbatross t1_j65o4dx wrote

No it can't. Hard to find the number of parking spots in the entire country, but there are something like 23 million bicycles in the Netherlands. It's not going to be even close.

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qutaaa666 t1_j65o2ng wrote

We spent almost 4 billion euros per year on infrastructure. 65 million isn’t that much. Our infrastructure is top notch, there are very few places on earth that are comparable. That’s why our taxes are so extremely high.

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Randouser555 t1_j66kdse wrote

Yeah infrastructure, not transport. Completely different.

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sjitz t1_j64fh2v wrote

You've never been there with the car, huh?

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theworstsailor1 t1_j65oyu7 wrote

Clearly you've never been to the Netherlands. EVERYONE bikes, there are hardly any cars on the roads, this is how people get around and for a country the size of Connecticut they place a lot of importance on biking. So it makes sense to have a garage to try and reduce the amount of bikes. The value added for people who use this is huge

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