danielv123 t1_j4uxypp wrote on January 18, 2023 at 1:06 PM

Reply to comment by EagleLeft5225 in Toyota to Convert Older Cars to Eco-Friendly Models to Curb Emissions by renome

We have had a large used market for EVs for the last decade and EVs hold their value far better than anything else.

Batteries from old EVs get broken down and reused all the time as well. Battery packs from crashed cars go for $5k+

EagleLeft5225 t1_j4v2cb7 wrote on January 18, 2023 at 1:43 PM

> and EVs hold their value far better than anything else.

Where? The tech is outdated, there are no more software updates for it, and the battery pack degraded by that time. If I buy a 100k mile diesel from a known reliable car, I'm 99% sure it'll be able to do 500k without any major cost, replacement. And at 500k, it is capable of doing the same performance, mileage, as it did from the factory.

> Batteries from old EVs get broken down and reused all the time as well.

I know it's doable. Question is, who would you trust with this? Companies can barely repair a transmission, and this is way more complicated. You can't go to dealerships because they'll just order a new pack which costs more than a car, new.

I know what you mean, I know about the Prius battery refresh and stuff. But there may be 10 shops you could trust around the world. Good luck servicing hundreds of thousands of cars like that.

Ps.: I like EVs, but they are plagued by so many issues. I think efficient and clean petrol engines like Mazda's, or hybrids like what's Toyota is making... makes a lot more sense and is the solution.

Also, unfortunately, replacing most cars would still barely make a dent in emissions. Ships, heavy machinery, trucks, buses, they all use diesel and they contribute to the ever changing climate way more.

danielv123 t1_j4v73kc wrote on January 18, 2023 at 2:19 PM

Why would you reuse batteries in cars? If it has lost enough capacity to be taken out and replaced then you don't put it in again. You put it somewhere where the lowered energy density doesn't matter. Portable battery packs, off-grid cabins, peak shaving setups, hybrid conversions etc. Reusing battery cells is far easier than repairing a transmission.

No, batteries don't cost more than a car. A 30 kWh leaf battery can be had for less than 5k. You'd likely spend more than that in maintenance on an ICE over 10 years.

You say any diesel is 99% likely to make 500k miles. First of all, that is BS. Second of all, plenty of taxi companies have driven EVs for 1m+ miles. There is a reason why they are the car of choice for taxi services.

As for car emissions being a relatively small source of emissions - sure. But it's also one of the easiest sources of emissions to get rid of. The technology is already here. I think a more important often overlooked point is the effect smart charging systems and recycled batteries have on allowing us to build a more dynamic grid capable of being powered by cheap unreliable renewables. Renewables don't work well enough without storage - old electric cars get turned into cheap grid storage, which makes a full renewable transition easier.

Alternative-Sock-444 t1_j4vrcbf wrote on January 18, 2023 at 4:33 PM

I'm a technician at a dealership that has had EV and hybrid models for years. We don't replace the whole battery pack, only the cell module that's faulty. And when we do, they get shipped back to the manufacturer to be recycled. Every manufacturer that makes EVs does the same as the infrastructure for recycling is already in place. We're not out here taking out entire battery units and throwing them in the dumpster out back lmao. And you can say it's not environmentally friendly all you want, but the math has already been done and proven otherwise. Through the entire life of the vehicle, with lithium mining and manufacturing emissions included, EVs are more environmentally friendly than ICE cars.