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_PM_ME_YOUR_FORESKIN t1_j29pa3o wrote

I’m not sure what the sentiment in Brazil is — and I’m not familiar with the current president’s controversial past — but these headlines are so much more reassuring than the ones born during Bolsonaro’s presidency. I hope it’s as positive of a change for you as Biden has been for us. Perfect? No. But civility in politics and a decisive step away from extremism is always a great thing, right?

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viniciusbfonseca t1_j2ajwml wrote

The election was extremely tight, so there are lots of angry people here, some are even camping outside military bases asking for a military coup.

It's very similar to how it was in the US after Trump lost.

As for positive changes: Lula was president for pretty much the whole of Brazil's golden years, when 1USD was only 2BRL (its about 6BRL now), we were in the top 10 biggest economies, and huge social and welfare programs were ongoing. Lula also made sure to respect democracy and appoint people for their skill rather than to have them scratch his back later. Really hope we can get back to that and stop being the world's laughingstock.

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Christ_votes_dem t1_j2bdhvv wrote

>Lula was president for pretty much the whole of Brazil's golden years, when 1USD was only 2BRL (its about 6BRL now), we were in the top 10 biggest economies, and huge social and welfare programs were ongoing.

the national average height went up under lula due to his nutrition programs

people love him

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viniciusbfonseca t1_j2bdr59 wrote

He also got Brazil out of the UN's hunger map, Bolsonaro managed to get Brazil back on it though (first country to ever leave the map and be brought back).

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JCalebBR t1_j2cs621 wrote

Hey we didn't get the Hexa but we sure pull our weight when it comes to fuck ups like that

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HaikuBotStalksMe t1_j29xuoy wrote

Still funny how the one time politics was relevant to me, they were like "nope". So close to having some of my student loans welfared. Oh well.

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_PM_ME_YOUR_FORESKIN t1_j29zf0j wrote

Must be a great life to only have one political issue affect you personally. Wow. And they’re still working on it.

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HaikuBotStalksMe t1_j2a0v02 wrote

I guess so. I generally keep to myself and try to survive. A lot of the stuff they fight over doesn't apply to me at all. It's one of the benefits of always being poor and an outsider, I guess.

As an Afghan immigrant, you don't have to care about tax rates or what the Senate can do with the stock market, or whether we're making nuclear fuel vs coal, or whether guns are legal or not, or whatever hot topic we're mad at.

Like when BLM was a thing - even if BLM had won and white on black racism was illegal, well, that still wouldn't affect me because all the races can still be racist against me. And would be even if it was illegal.

The occupy wall street stuff is irrelevant to me because it's not like I'm going to have enough money to do big stocks.

And so on. The financial aid and Obama care were all that were relevant to me, and Obama care ended up not being free insurance, but instead the worst possible alternative: "you have to buy expensive insurance, or else". So unlike before where I could save money by just not buying insurance, I was strong armed into buying insurance (luckily I had a job so I was just my very weak $13/week insurance, but my parents had to buy like a $200/month insurance with like a $9000 deductible - i.e. a monthly fine since how the fuck do you meet a $9000 deductible on $20,000 a year? Don't forget that $2400 of that yearly wage is going toward the $200 monthly fee).

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CommentBro t1_j2a56dv wrote

Respectfully, a lot of those things still apply to you, you're just a step or two removed from them.

Tax rates matter to everyone not just in how much they pay individually, but how much the government has available to distribute (e.g. student loan forgiveness, healthcare, infrastructure, etc.)

Stock market matters because it's essentially what the entire economy was built from. Most financial systems are tied to stocks in one way or another so the health and trustworthiness of the market is key. This allows for the mortgage you will hopefully be able to get one day and the rates you are able to secure on auto loans, personal loans, and your student loans.

Nuclear vs coal may not impact you now but it will impact you later, as well as future generations.

The gun debate and how we treat gun ownership affects anyone and everyone, from school children, to adults at a club, to anyone going to a movie, etc.

It all matters and it especially matters to an immigrant like yourself. Please stay politically active and aware of what's going on because the only way to ensure you aren't getting any benefits is by staying out of politics.

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DryGumby t1_j2acxcb wrote

>Like when BLM was a thing - even if BLM had won and white on black racism was illegal, well, that still wouldn't affect me because all the races can still be racist against me. And would be even if it was illegal.

I think you missed what that was about. No one was trying to make white people being racist illegal. They wanted black people to stop being murdered by racist cops.

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HaikuBotStalksMe t1_j2adiwx wrote

Pretty sure that was just one facet of it. They mainly wanted anti-black racism to end. They talked a lot about systemic stuff.

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DryGumby t1_j2aemkm wrote

By making racism by white people against only black people illegal? That's not a facet of anything. The systemic racism is murderous cops being enabled by the system and facing no accountability for their actions. That's systemic stuff.

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CankerLord t1_j2a1x7i wrote

>Still funny how the one time politics was relevant to me,

Lol, the entire modern world is the result of a series of agreements between many groups of people, most of which involves politics.

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tundar t1_j2ax0yk wrote

I’m Brazilian but currently living in the exterior. My personal feelings and from what I gather from my family, it’s that no one is necessarily happy with Lula, because he was corrupt during his presidency though significantly less corrupt than Bolsonaro, but at least during his prior presidency poverty decreased and education increased on a massive scale (through things like the Bolsa Famila program.

I think the general consensus is we’re expecting some degree corruption but we’re very hopeful that life will improve for the poorest, indigenous people and women like it did during his previous presidency.

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jeanlenin t1_j2bcqr2 wrote

What was his corruption? I always hear “lula was corrupt” but never really nailed down a straight answer tbh

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kingpippin t1_j2c0rxs wrote

The major problem is that the corruption schemes were run by his party but they never really managed to prove his own personal involvement with it.

When they did "prove it" (and had him arrested for over a year) it was by a judge who was considered partial by the Supreme Court and had a lot of cases thrown out on partiality and something about how it should have been judged in another place.

No one doubts his party was involved in corruption schemes. They were. So we're their allies and the whole thing.

The main problem lies in optics: What was Lula's role in these? Why was his successor (Dilma Roussef) impeached? He and his party have never really addressed the issues so people have issues with that.

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jeanlenin t1_j2c16qv wrote

That makes sense and lines up with the answers I’ve gotten from my Brazilian friends. I was aware of the scandal within the party I guess I just never connected that to Lula since I don’t live in Brazil and just aren’t that familiar with its politics. Cheers

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tundar t1_j2bff6x wrote

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mensal%C3%A3o_scandal

Personally, even with all his faults I'm still extremely hopeful and happy that Lula won Bolsonaro lost. It was the right step forward for our democracy, and it's hard to do worse than Jair let's-make-it-a-military-dictatorship-again Bolsonaro.

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mbrandalise t1_j2bmm1w wrote

Bolso and Lula = corruption detected.
We all should keep demanding from them the BEST for our country or let's kick them out next elections!
#PoliticiansAreNotHeroes #leaveYourBubbleBro #WeAreTheHeroes

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Velghast t1_j2bogiq wrote

In all honesty other than having a solid figure head that isn't poking a bee's nest every 5 seconds biden's United States is no different than Donald Trump's. Inflation is still out of control nothing is being done about the housing crisis that is growing and growing, and the few bills we do get that are supposed to be helpful are so watered down or so minuscule they literally help nobody. I was all for getting the orange man out but what we got wasn't much better, just an old man with a cooler head. Honestly I don't think it matters who the president is. The United States is not going to change unless we have a drastic overhaul of how our three pillar system operates.

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karoom21 t1_j2c3gqk wrote

I told all my friends and family, a vote for Biden is a vote for Trump in 2024. Certainly these corporate dick sucking DemoCANTS will save us from the racist rapist ReTHUGlicans. Its a shame all these "libs" keep pushing the Overton window to the right.

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bobonga t1_j2bsf6c wrote

This exact same washing happened for Boric in Chile. It always happens for leftist politicians in Latin America. It means nothing. It’s tokenism and pandering. These people more often than not end un being completely useless and lacking any useful experience or skill for their posts. Their only objective is getting praise from shallow people on the media and online. Bolsonaro wasn’t great. Lula isn’t either.

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enzovrlrd t1_j2a35fe wrote

The dude was literally in prison. There is no silver lining here. Just because the other was bad doesn't make it a good deal. There is a much longer and deeper discussion to be held here but to summarize: the right to vote without consequence or collateral makes it easy to abuse. A relative was a candidate at this election and hundreds of people walked into the committee asking how much would she pay for their vote. In broad daylight, no shame on it either.

As long as my vote matters as much as theirs, the wrong people will manipulate and skew the situation towards their needs. Lula is skilled at this, he negotiates with the people that matter. In a way, he reminds Frank Underwood in his maneuverability and lack of morals applying his tactics. From all the people that occupied high ranks in his party, only a handful of the gullible or unimportant were not incarcerated for corruption. From low ranking messagers to the minister in charge of his staff, the list would almost be funny if it wasn't so tragic.

With all that said, though, I believe most of the blame is within Brazilian culture itself. It's perceived as being street smart if you are able to take advantage of others, no matter how. People study hard to get public office jobs that they can't be fired from, so they can "relax" and have a comfortable life with minimum effort. The state ends up being overstaffed and barely doing the minimum, all when millions get paid to pretend it's not their fault. Maybe a handful of well educated and informed generations might start to improve this but I doubt it. It's in our nature to do this with "jeitinho", loosely translated to "our little way"

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Good-mUonkey t1_j2a77o0 wrote

There is some silverlining though, the judge that put him in prision was a Bolsonaro ally, the UN and the supreme court of Brazil literally said it was an unfair trial.

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enzovrlrd t1_j2ahv9k wrote

That doesn't make any of his crimes less truthful. Besides that, the supreme court had many ministers appointed by himself and the intermediate superior court, composed of 3 judges, not only confirmed the first instance sentence but increased the number of years to be served. It's literally impossible to retract the political aspect of an ex-president, there are many bad things about both sides of the legal battle, but regardless, Lula's son has ascended from minimum wage to multi millionaire within a couple of years. To pretend he is a good citizen is naive and enabling

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brokenhumerus t1_j2aujn7 wrote

>Lula is skilled at this, he negotiates with the people that matter.

That's literally ✨politics✨

>From all the people that occupied high ranks in his party, only a handful of the gullible or unimportant were not incarcerated for corruption.

To say Lava Jato (and Mensalão, since we're talking corruption) was exclusive to PT is extremely gullible, and ignorant.

Y'all give Lula way too much credit for being "a strategist" lol

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RightActionEvilEye t1_j2aghi7 wrote

Found the Lavajatista (Car-Wash Operation 'fan').
Brazil will not be "saved" by some arrogant middle-class elite, thinking they are selfless enlightened heroes saving the people from their "primitive" ways.

Collective action and organization are a better approach.

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enzovrlrd t1_j2aizy8 wrote

It is your ignorance that needs saving, your affirmation lacks an argument and barely means anything. Yes, PT was criminal, from the simple definition of convicted of criminal activity. Your mental gymnastic to pretend they will suddenly behave properly is as naive as your name calling is mischievous

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RayneSazaki t1_j2csx2m wrote

my name is Joker, but the biggest joke in this room you call an echo chamber is You.

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GGABueno t1_j2arnu2 wrote

Comparing Lula to Frank Underwood is a joke lmfao. He's most compared to Steve Bannon... who was working for Bolsonaro's campaign.

If you don't want the Worker's Party to come back, which is fair, then don't fucking vote for the vilest piece of shit you can find.

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enzovrlrd t1_j2deyeu wrote

I didn't. The duality of it makes it beyond comprehension. People calling the representative of banking and industry sectors a communist and the one that buys support with handouts a fascist. It's even dumber to assume whoever didn't vote for a side to be for the other one; the proportion of the population that can name the political proposal of the candidate they voted for is abysmally low. That's my point. You don't even need to go far, just follow this thread and look for people calling me "bolsominion". I didn't vote for him on either election, yet it's easier to fight the perception of an enemy, regardless of how real he is

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