Submitted by saltyswedishmeatball t3_112ah3u in UpliftingNews
snekbat t1_j8m2lp5 wrote
Why is this uplifting news exactly? Some people don't actually have enough money to buy/lease an electric car, or even have access to usable public transport
M8rio t1_j8mf5gu wrote
It's EU. Public transport may have some issues, but it's cheap, reliable and ecologicaly make sense.
Elatnat t1_j8miouj wrote
"reliable" lmao.
The only reason I drive to work and I stopped using the public transport is because of how bad it is (Paris region). I am never going back to public transport for work commute.
It also isn't as cheap as you would think.
snekbat t1_j8n2qyi wrote
My commute takes 40 minutes for a round trip in my car. It takes over 2.5 hours if I take public transport, as well as me not being on time for the start of my shift even if I take the earliest option, and costing €14 for the round trip. Not to mention the fact that half of the busses on this particular line didn't even drive today due to staff shortages.
Public transport only makes sense if you're either living and working in a major city (in which case, why aren't you taking a bike anyway?), or commuting between major cities.
M8rio t1_j8n5bzs wrote
Like I said PB might have some issues, I know what I talking about-living in bumfuck part of Slovakia.
I do also know, that all public transport in EU si subsidised, so number of links, they routes and timetables are scheduled by local authorities, You need to take an action: write a letter to your council and inform them that there is this problem.
They love solving problems if its for free: rerouting, or changing schedules cost almost nothing if so, and they can boast it in campaign.
Of course is different in really rural areas, like in place, where I have my cabin- there are 2 buses per day, but its still manageble.
snekbat t1_j8n92ja wrote
Sadly, that's not how it works in the Netherlands, we work on a system similar to UK railroads with private companies servicing certain claims. I probably don't need to tell you it sucks a**.
villagewinery t1_j8mtna2 wrote
The luxury cars produced now will be affordable, used cars in 5 years. Remember most EVs will far outlast the ICE cars everyone is used to. 500k mile lifecycle will be commonplace.
EVs will keep getting cheaper. The trend has just started. That's how tech adoption works. There will be a $25k EV made by every large manufacturer. Thirst that don't will no longer exist.
Already more than 10% of cars are electric or electrified. The profit margins are no longer there to support the ICE car manufacturing process.
If you had to build a product with 10k parts and compete with a guy making his out of 2k parts, how long could you stay in business?
snekbat t1_j8mzz0n wrote
>500k mile lifecycle will be commonplace.
That's the far future still, currently you're still looking at significant battery/range degradation and a 20k battery pack replacement during the lifetime of your car. A battery lasting 500k miles will also have a price tag, so you'll likely not find one in an affordable car.
>EVs will keep getting cheaper. The trend has just started.
That's nice, but it has already been confirmed that there is likely not enough lithium on earth to get to net zero, let alone replace every ICE currently on the road, especially considering major growing markets like China and India
>Already more than 10% of cars are electric or electrified
Not even close, it may be more than 10% in some markets, even up to 50% in China but on a worldwide basis it is just slightly over 2%
>The profit margins are no longer there to support the ICE car manufacturing process.
Tell that to companies like Mazda and Porsche.
>If you had to build a product with 10k parts and compete with a guy making his out of 2k parts, how long could you stay in business
Quite a long time, considering the massive and unresolvable supply shortages on a key part of those 2k parts
Only one solution to the mess we're in, and it's hydrogen. It's either Hydrogen for everyone, or ICE's and EV's for the top 10% of society, with the bottom 90% being forced on to bikes or public transport.
RnLStefan t1_j8nchui wrote
>That's nice, but it has already been confirmed that there is likely not enough lithium on earth to get to net zero, let alone replace every ICE currently on the road, especially considering major growing markets like China and India
By whom?
In 2010, Stanford university released a paper that stated that back then there were 9.900.000 tons of known, economically extractable quantity world wide (mostly in Chile and Argentinia). Last year, the world wide extraction was at around 40.000 tons if I am not mistaken, or 0.0002475% the known reserves.
http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2010/ph240/eason2/
Since then, more reserves were discovered in Sweden, Finland and the US. I would say we are far away from running out of lithium - which can be recycled btw - as well as we're far away from not being able to replace all cars on earth with BEVs, if we wanted to. Whether that is actually a desirable goal is another story.
>Not even close, it may be more than 10% in some markets, even up to 50% in China but on a worldwide basis it is just slightly over 2%
World wide market share in 2022 was 10%, not 2.
https://insideevs.com/news/651947/global-plugin-car-sales-december2022/
Sure, some countries are lagging behind and in some this is not even a consideration, but then again, there's several poorer countries that are actually looking at other forms of transportation that are not cars. Like electric motorcycles, locally made or electric trikes.
> Only one solution to the mess we're in, and it's hydrogen.
Let's look at hydrogen then.
- The electricity to make a H2 car run 100km would power a BEV for 300km. I.e. you pay 3x the price to drive a hydrogen car.
- A hydrogen fuel cell uses actual rare earths (platinum) while a battery doesn't. It needs to be replaced every 150.000 to 160.000 kilometers for who knows how much.
- Hydrogen is a highly potent greenhouse gas and the British government recently released a study indicating that up to 10% of all won hydrogen is lost in the "pipeline" between well and end-user. We need to decrease emission of GHGs, no increase them.
- Hydrogen fuelstations are highly expensive, need to be subsidized and do not scale well (20minutes breaks to repressurize during rush hour. Might as well charge a BEV in those 20 minutes). Unless you buy more pumps and tanks, but that leads back to the first point: They're expensive - and more tanks and pumps need more space.
- Hydrogen cars have stalled in the low thousands (2600 Miras sold last year).
- Toyota, while still committed to hydrogen on paper, have now also committed to BEVs, after realizing that they won't maintain their marketshare when focusing purely on hydrogen cars.
- Chinas manufacturers are currently the only ones besides Japan who have a major stake in Hydrogen cars as their government is funding three different branches of research in the future of transportation.
- BMW basically gave up on their renewed Hydrogen plans last year or so.
- Mercedes stopped all development in 2019
- VW publicly committed to BEVs and does not consider hydrogen anymore.
- Stellantis has one hydrogen car in their portfolio that I know of, one of their commercial transporters comes as BEV & hydrogen model.
- Renault is planning a hydrogen version of the Scenic. Sometime after 2030.
- The large US car makers are way behind on BEV deliveries and production. Hydrogen is not even on their roadmaps.
That leaves 5-10 years for BEVs and the charging infrastructure to gain a market share that will make hydrogen cars unmarketable. And if you think back 10 years ago, there wasn't a charging infrastructure at all.
mjfi4cp2 t1_j91f62r wrote
Hydrogen is bunk for almost all vehicular applications
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